# The first "sim" style game. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 13, 2006, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-sim-style-game/376323 "2006-10-13T16:38:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-sim-style-game/376323/1 "2006-10-13T16:38:49Z")
So, I was playing my advanced copy of _Spore_ the other day, and it got me thinking. The first game I remember where you had to create a society was a game called Utopia on Intellivision. In this game, you each had an island, and you built hospitals, planted crops, built schools, built fishing boats, etc. I forget what you “tallied”, but I think you had population, and money, and happiness. . .that kind of thing. You were actively playing against the other player, or a computer, though. I think you coudl agree to team up with the other player, but I forget how that worked. You were beset by things like typhoons, and pirates. One nice feature was that you could build a PT boat to fend off pirates, but you could also use it to sink one of your opponent’s fishing boats. Anyway, what were the origins of games like this? Does anyone remember one before Utopia? Does anyone remember Utopia? By the way, I’m kidding about _Spore_. I’ve never actually played one of the sim games, but I was reading an article about it last week and it sounds pretty cool. ---
**Author:** ![Mindfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindfield/32/19759_2.png) [@Mindfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mindfield)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-sim-style-game/376323/2 "2006-10-13T16:48:00Z")
I don’t know how far you want to boil it down for it still to be considered any kind of “sim” but I recall a text-based game that I’m sure had its roots in mainframes and early computing devices. It was called Hammurabi, Kingdom, or may go by other names. It was essentially a very basic feudal kingdom sim where you assumed control of taxation rates, determined how much grain to plant, purchased land, and basically tried to make your kingdom grow and flourish on a year-by-year basis. There were certainly no bells or whistles – it was all textual, no graphics – and it all really just came down to balancing your finances against your people’s tax burden and their survival through planting and land acquisition. Lather, rinse, repeat. ---
**Author:** ![Improv\_Geek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b3f665/32.png) [@Improv\_Geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Improv_Geek)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-sim-style-game/376323/3 "2006-10-13T16:48:21Z")
Jesus you about gave me a heart attack, I was fairly sure the game wasn’t due out until sometime next year. I’ve been drooling over this game ever since I heard about it! It seems like there was something before Utopia but I can’t recall… – IG ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-sim-style-game/376323/4 "2006-10-13T16:53:54Z")
Monopoly? ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-sim-style-game/376323/5 "2006-10-13T16:57:03Z")
Wow, \*\*Minefield \*\* – I hadn’t thought about Hammurabi on the ol’ TRS-80 for a _long_ time. That’s gotta be a contender. The trick will be determining how old the seminal versions were. ---
**Author:** ![Mindfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindfield/32/19759_2.png) [@Mindfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mindfield)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-sim-style-game/376323/6 "2006-10-13T17:14:49Z")
[QUOTE=bordelond] Wow, \*\*Minefield \*\* – I hadn’t thought about Hammurabi on the ol’ TRS-80 for a _long_ time. That’s gotta be a contender. The trick will be determining how old the seminal versions were. [/QUOTE] The earliest instance I can find (so far) is from 1978, written by David Ahl, then-editor of Creative Computing. There’s a page on it [here](http://www.stibbe.net/History/Games_Speech/Hammurabi.htm). ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-sim-style-game/376323/7 "2006-10-13T17:22:22Z")
While it probably doesn’t beat the old Trash, there’s Little Computer People for the C64. But the very first computerized version was Life. ---
**Author:** ![Mindfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindfield/32/19759_2.png) [@Mindfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mindfield)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-sim-style-game/376323/8 "2006-10-13T18:02:22Z")
Life was more on the order of a digital petri dish, though. You set the parameters in motion, but after that you just sat there and watched the cells multiply and die off. A simulation in the most elemental sense, but not really a _game_. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-sim-style-game/376323/9 "2006-10-13T18:35:09Z")
[QUOTE=Mindfield] I don’t know how far you want to boil it down for it still to be considered any kind of “sim” but I recall a text-based game that I’m sure had its roots in mainframes and early computing devices. It was called Hammurabi, Kingdom, or may go by other names. It was essentially a very basic feudal kingdom sim where you assumed control of taxation rates, determined how much grain to plant, purchased land, and basically tried to make your kingdom grow and flourish on a year-by-year basis. There were certainly no bells or whistles – it was all textual, no graphics – and it all really just came down to balancing your finances against your people’s tax burden and their survival through planting and land acquisition. Lather, rinse, repeat. [/QUOTE] That was the one where the monetary unit was “rallods,” wasn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Mindfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindfield/32/19759_2.png) [@Mindfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mindfield)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-sim-style-game/376323/10 "2006-10-13T18:58:32Z")
[QUOTE=Snooooopy] That was the one where the monetary unit was “rallods,” wasn’t it? [/QUOTE] It probably depends on the version you played. Insignificant details like the name of the monetary units or the kingdom in which you played (Mesopotamia, Babylon, etc.) tended to change from port to port. ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-sim-style-game/376323/11 "2006-10-13T19:47:27Z")
[QUOTE=Trunk] So, I was playing my advanced copy of _Spore_ the other day, and it got me thinking. \ By the way, I’m kidding about _Spore_. I’ve never actually played one of the sim games, but I was reading an article about it last week and it sounds pretty cool. [/QUOTE] You’re evil, and there’s a special place in hell reserved for you. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-sim-style-game/376323/12 "2006-10-13T20:35:03Z")
[QUOTE=Trunk] The first game I remember where you had to create a society was a game called Utopia on Intellivision. In this game, you each had an island, and you built hospitals, planted crops, built schools, built fishing boats, etc. … One nice feature was that you could build a PT boat to fend off pirates, but you could also use it to sink one of your opponent’s fishing boats. Anyway, what were the origins of games like this? Does anyone remember one before Utopia? Does anyone remember Utopia? [/QUOTE] I rememeber Utopia! Had an Intellivision growing up, and I used to play that one all the time. Always sucked when a hurricane came over you and wiped everything out. And I used the PT boat to sink everything I could… I’m pretty sure I still have the old Intellivision set, along with a bunch of game cartridges, in a box in a closet (probably in a locked closet in a disused lavatory with a sign reading “Beware of the Leopard”) somewhere. Last time I ever tried to hook it up, I don’t think it was working properly (a game would load up, but with distorted video or something). ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-sim-style-game/376323/13 "2006-10-13T20:55:27Z")
Another old Utopia fan. I used to play it all the time when I was younger. My friend and I had our own theories and which parts of the island were best for crops, what directions hurricanes would take, etc. I remember once playing with a different friend and he started slamming me with rebel uprisings. Then he got upset that the button wasn’t working – he thought the icon represented a coal miner or something. There’s copies of it available on the web but I never tried to play it again. For one thing, it’s a two player game and I’m only one person. For another, I doubt it’ll hold up to my memories of twenty years ago. Still, I’m a little annoyed when I see those nostolgia “plug into the TV” joystick games filled with old Intellivision games and no Utopia. Adding to the list of old sim style games, there was “[Alter Ego](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alter_Ego_(game))” for the Commodore where you led your life from infanthood onwards in a “Choose your own adventure” sort of way. Came in both Male and Female flavors, each sold separately ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-sim-style-game/376323/14 "2006-10-13T21:32:36Z")
I used to blay a version of Hammurabi on my Dad’s C-64. In 1987 or so. We also played a game called “HotWar” which was basically a big ol’ nuke war sim. It was awesome. And I’ve discussed “Galactic Empires” before. Loved that one too, but it seem to have vanished in the midst of time. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-sim-style-game/376323/15 "2006-10-14T00:27:57Z")
[QUOTE=Mindfield] Life was more on the order of a digital petri dish, though. You set the parameters in motion, but after that you just sat there and watched the cells multiply and die off. A simulation in the most elemental sense, but not really a _game_. [/QUOTE] I dunno. I kept trying to make glider guns. Took weeks to figure it out. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-sim-style-game/376323/16 "2006-10-14T02:07:29Z")
I was going to chime in with Simcity. But that shows my age. Or lack thereof. ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-sim-style-game/376323/17 "2006-10-14T03:37:41Z")
There was German online game very similiar to the Sims. It was called Cybertown You picked out an avatar, built a house got jobs, had pets, etc. It was pretty cool. In a very basic way you interacted with other players and did all sorts of things. You could buy & sell furniture, get jobs in the community. > **[CyberTown](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CyberTown)** > > Cybertown (CT) (formerly Colony City) was a free (changed to pay per year in 2002), family friendly, online community. There were places (chat rooms) available either through a 2D or 3D chat environment. Users were able to have jobs within the community, earning virtual money called CC's (CityCash) that could be used to buy 3D homes and items. Each user was allowed a free 2D home and could locate it within any of a number of colonies subdivided into neighborhoods and blocks. The cost was $5.00 pe... BTW, for anyone that plays the Sims, the pet expansion pack is coming out soon. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-sim-style-game/376323/18 "2006-10-14T04:06:28Z")
Year (more or less) for Utopia, please? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-sim-style-game/376323/19 "2006-10-14T04:16:15Z")
1999 I think. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-sim-style-game/376323/20 "2006-10-14T04:18:13Z")
Thanks. If so, SimLife and SimCity were earlier. I played them somewhere between 1992-1995. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-sim-style-game/376323.md?page=2)