# The First six months under Trump, economically speaking **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 5, 2017, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836 "2017-08-05T13:14:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2017, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/41 "2017-08-06T13:27:33Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > The S&P 500 has actually under-performed the French and German equivalent (CAC40 and the DAX) in election day. Here you can see the results in index terms and then adjusted for the falling dollar, which makes the difference even worse: > > [x.com](https://twitter.com/paulkrugman/status/893847503484968960) > > So, many stock markets are doing well. **Silver Lining** , are you saying that the French and German leaders are even better than Trump? > > Back when the Dow hit 18,000, Trump claimed it was a bubble. Now, at 22,000, he’s taking credit. Weird. Back when he was running, he said the unemployment rate was, I don’t know, 40%? Now, he’s taking credit for the same unemployment measurment that he said was #FAKENEWS during the election. Weird. But that’s the OPs point. Unemployment was 42% when Trump took office and now its 4.3 percent. The man’s a freakin’ genius. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2017, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/42 "2017-08-06T13:29:15Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > But that’s the OPs point. Unemployment was 42% when Trump took office and now its 4.3 percent. The man’s a freakin’ genius. 😃 I guess, from Trump’s own bizarre perspective, that makes total sense. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2017, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/43 "2017-08-06T13:44:10Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > So any talk of Trump’s success is obviously quite premature. It’s like congratulating a starting pitcher for getting two outs in the first inning of a ballgame. There’s a long way to go and a lot can happen. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > It’s like congratulating a pitcher for getting two outs in the first inning when he switched in one pitch ago. OK, that was a good one! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2017, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/44 "2017-08-06T13:49:48Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > But that’s the OPs point. Unemployment was 42% when Trump took office and now its 4.3 percent. The man’s a freakin’ genius. **Silver lining** is going to believe that’s a serious assessment. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/45 "2017-08-07T11:13:07Z")
It seems like some are allergic to the good economic news when there isn’t a " D " In front of his name. Perhaps the political map is troublesome for some as the Democrats only have 15 governors out of 50 states, and are behind in the Senate, the House and the Supreme court. So for them, political faith is trumping objective reasoning. The economy is improving. Mock English as my 2nd language is if makes you feel better, I think it only shows a lack of class. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/46 "2017-08-07T11:25:03Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > It seems like some are allergic to the good economic news when there isn’t a " D " In front of his name. No. We’re not. We’re just pointing out, correctly, that Trump has done _virtually nothing new_. The current economy is the economy built under the Obama administration. The kindest things one can say for Trump are that he hasn’t ruined it yet\*, and that because the president is a Republican, Republicans are no longer indulging in insane conspiracy theories about how awful the economy is, and therefore consumer confidence is on the rise. That’s it. There hasn’t been any sweeping economic policy passed, no huge tax cuts achieved, no pro-business legislature passed. It’s a continuation of Obama’s policies under a republican header. Come back after Trump actually _changes_ anything. \*[Not for lack of trying, mind you](http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/healthcare/335249-ahca-will-make-our-economy-sick). > [@](#): > > Perhaps the political map is troublesome for some as the Democrats only have 15 governors out of 50 states, and are behind in the Senate, the House and the Supreme court. > > So for them, political faith is trumping objective reasoning. > > The economy is improving. Mock English as my 2nd language is if makes you feel better, I think it only shows a lack of class. Perhaps instead of attacking our motives, or going after the worst posters and claiming offense, you should address our points. In my opinion, baseless ad hominem, and claiming everyone else is arguing in bad faith (when in fact they’ve directly addressed your assertions) shows a distinct lack of class. I also see it as a sure sign that you don’t really have a rebuttal and that you’ve lost the argument. But that’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/47 "2017-08-07T11:26:34Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > It seems like some are allergic to the good economic news when there isn’t a " D " In front of his name. > > Perhaps the political map is troublesome for some as the Democrats only have 15 governors out of 50 states, and are behind in the Senate, the House and the Supreme court. > > So for them, political faith is trumping objective reasoning. > > The economy is improving. Mock English as my 2nd language is if makes you feel better, I think it only shows a lack of class. The economy has been improving since March 2009. He doesn’t get to pretend it’s all his doing in the last 6 months. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/48 "2017-08-07T11:42:35Z")
Just to make things crystal clear, [here’s unemployment from August 2007 to June 2017](https://data.oecd.org/chart/4Ubi). [Here’s earnings](https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CES0500000003?output_view=net_1mth). [Here’s inflation](https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CUSR0000SA0?output_view=pct_1mth). Stand up if you feel that Trump Bump! Then sit back down, open your Statistics 101 textbook, and _actually read it_ before continuing to opine on anything to do with statistics or economics (which is mostly statistics). It ain’t that hard. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/49 "2017-08-07T12:09:59Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > It seems like some are allergic to the good economic news when there isn’t a " D " In front of his name. > > Perhaps the political map is troublesome for some as the Democrats only have 15 governors out of 50 states, and are behind in the Senate, the House and the Supreme court. > > So for them, political faith is trumping objective reasoning. > > The economy is improving. Mock English as my 2nd language is if makes you feel better, I think it only shows a lack of class. Yes, the economy is improving, as it was for most of Obama’s presidency through the end. Obama signed a stimulus and many other actual bills that affected money moving through the economy. Trump has done pretty much nothing. Speeches about how coal is great don’t count as actual economic policy being instituted. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/50 "2017-08-07T12:14:28Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > It seems like some are allergic to the good economic news when there isn’t a " D " In front of his name. > > Perhaps the political map is troublesome for some as the Democrats only have 15 governors out of 50 states, and are behind in the Senate, the House and the Supreme court. > > So for them, political faith is trumping objective reasoning. > > The economy is improving. Mock English as my 2nd language is if makes you feel better, I think it only shows a lack of class. **Silver Lining** , if you truly want to engage in a fact based discussion, stop throwing around meaningless generalities. Your quote about the political map, for example, has no bearing on the discussion you said you wanted to have about the economy. You asked a number of posts back what would make “us” admit Trump was having a positive impact on the economy. I can only answer for "me, not this imaginary “us”, so here ya go. _ **A sustained departure from the trends that were already in place before he took office. Note, that departure can be of the up or down variety.** _ That is what I would need to see. Nothing you have quoted or implied meets that standard. At best, if I wanted to be charitable, I would say that his administration has not fucked up the economy as quickly as I anticipated. To me, that is an indication that the economy was on really solid footing to begin with. Hey, that Obama guy did pretty good there, didn’t he? All, that to say, I am damning Trump damning with faint praise when I say he hasn’t fucked our economy yet, when I also consider how fucked the rest of his actions/administration have been. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/51 "2017-08-07T13:16:22Z")
The OP is right. We should give credit where credit is due. The Obama economy is doing quite well. As for the Trump economy, that can’t really be assessed for a few years. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/52 "2017-08-07T13:50:27Z")
The value of the USD vis-à-vis major currencies has dropped dramatically since Trump was elected. I’m in China right now, so it’s blocked, but search on “Political Drama Is Hitting the Dollar Hard - Bloomberg” for details. Great, this might help some exports, but it’s going to hurt Wal-mart shoppers where it counts and increase inflation. Regarding Apple, it is to laugh to think that they will open 3 factories in the US. My google-fu isn’t cooperating in China, but Apple shut down their last PC related factory something like 15 years ago. Apple outsources their manufacturing to a host of suppliers, with their top 200 suppliers listed [here](https://www.apple.com/euro/supplier-responsibility/c/generic/pdf/Suppliers.pdf). Apple’s business model revolves around not owning their own factory. To think that Apple would open 3 factories in the US, without a supply chain to support those factories, is simplistic in the extreme. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/53 "2017-08-07T14:38:40Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > It’s like congratulating a pitcher for getting two outs in the first inning when he switched in one pitch ago. well, double plays are pretty awesome.😉 ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/54 "2017-08-07T15:22:23Z")
Hardly makes up for all the unforced errors. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/55 "2017-08-07T15:33:05Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > The value of the USD vis-à-vis major currencies has dropped dramatically since Trump was elected. I’m in China right now, so it’s blocked, but search on “Political Drama Is Hitting the Dollar Hard - Bloomberg” for details. Great, this might help some exports, but it’s going to hurt Wal-mart shoppers where it counts and increase inflation. Here’s a graph of [the dollar vs the euro](http://www.x-rates.com/graph/?from=USD&to=EUR&amount=1), which shows a pretty steady decline in the value of the dollar starting right about election time last Nov. That’s an interesting indicator, as few Americans are even aware of it, but it can have a significant effect on the economy. Some good, some bad, and hard to tell what the net result is going to be. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/56 "2017-08-07T15:41:09Z")
John Mace, no company became great by cost cutting, and no country became great by their currency depreciating… The dollar devaluation, and it is effectively a devaluation, is not an indicator of economic strength. Markets are starting to notice. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/57 "2017-08-07T17:19:28Z")
China became great by devaluing their currency. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/58 "2017-08-07T18:18:37Z")
We give presidents too much credit/blame for the economy. There are some things that presidents can do to influence it- tax policy, infrastructure programs and such but by and large the economic cycles have a mind of their own. I’m betting this clown takes credit for the upcoming solar eclipse. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/59 "2017-08-07T18:22:56Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > We give presidents too much credit/blame for the economy. There are some things that presidents can do to influence it- tax policy, infrastructure programs and such but by and large the economic cycles have a mind of their own. I’m betting this clown takes credit for the upcoming solar eclipse. Many very smart people predicted that Trump would bring dark times. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/60 "2017-08-07T18:33:44Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > John Mace, no company became great by cost cutting, and no country became great by their currency depreciating… > > The dollar devaluation, and it is effectively a devaluation, is not an indicator of economic strength. Markets are starting to notice. I wasn’t saying it was a good thing. FYI, I was agreeing with you. I thought the graph would be helpful as a cite. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836.md?page=4)