# The First six months under Trump, economically speaking **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 5, 2017, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836 "2017-08-05T13:14:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/61 "2017-08-07T18:35:08Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > We give presidents too much credit/blame for the economy. There are some things that presidents can do to influence it- tax policy, infrastructure programs and such but by and large the economic cycles have a mind of their own. I’m betting this clown takes credit for the upcoming solar eclipse. Nasty eclipseses. Takes away the sunses it does! ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/62 "2017-08-07T23:13:11Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > The OP is right. We should give credit where credit is due. The Obama economy is doing quite well. Correct. Obama’s achievement in settling things down and stabilising them deserves more recognition. > [@](#): > > As for the Trump economy, that can’t really be assessed for a few years. Right now, he can be said to have not done anything to fuck up the economy. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/63 "2017-08-08T00:29:36Z")
Just wait. The early rumblings are that withdrawing from the TPP and insulting the fuck out of Mexico are going to screw over US agriculture bigly. To the tune of billions in lost sales. There’s fucking up and then there’s Trumping up. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/64 "2017-08-08T02:10:04Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > The numbers are the numbers. It seems like some just can’t give any credit. Yes…The numbers are the numbers. And, those numbers are that Obama inherited an economy losing about 700,000 to 800,000 private sector jobs per month. By July, he had it down under 300,000 per month and by early 2010, we were gaining jobs again ([https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/sites/whitehouse.gov/files/images/Charts/jobs\_110615\_chart1.png](https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/sites/whitehouse.gov/files/images/Charts/jobs_110615_chart1.png)) Trump inherited an economy gaining about 200,000 private sector jobs per month…and that is still what it is doing. He doesn’t deserve any great credit for that other than grudging credit for not completely fucking it up like he has a lot of other things. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/65 "2017-08-08T02:18:11Z")
[Here](http://www.westernasset.com/common/img/commentary/market-data/july-payroll-job-growth-shows-improvement-for-2nd-straight-month-2017-08-exhibit-1.png), by the way, is a an up-to-date plot of private sector job growth since 2013. It is hard to see anything in there that one can point to as a Trump bump. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/66 "2017-08-08T02:52:36Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > [Here](http://www.westernasset.com/common/img/commentary/market-data/july-payroll-job-growth-shows-improvement-for-2nd-straight-month-2017-08-exhibit-1.png), by the way, is a an up-to-date plot of private sector job growth since 2013. It is hard to see anything in there that one can point to as a Trump bump. See all the lines above the red line? That’s Trump’s doing. See all the lines below the red line Mueller crossed? FAKE NEWS! All of it! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/67 "2017-08-08T03:15:42Z")
The stock market is a measurement of whether rich people think they’ll get richer in the short term. There’s no sense denying the reality that Trump has promised to line their pockets via his proposed binge of de-regulation. Of course, when that fails to materialize, the bubble will collapse. Then you’ll start a new thread explaining how this is actually Obama’s fault. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/68 "2017-08-09T11:38:39Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > Yes…The numbers are the numbers. And, those numbers are that Obama inherited an economy losing about 700,000 to 800,000 private sector jobs per month. By July, he had it down under 300,000 per month and by early 2010, we were gaining jobs again ([https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/sites/whitehouse.gov/files/images/Charts/jobs\_110615\_chart1.png](https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/sites/whitehouse.gov/files/images/Charts/jobs_110615_chart1.png)) > > Trump inherited an economy gaining about 200,000 private sector jobs per month…and that is still what it is doing. He doesn’t deserve any great credit for that other than grudging credit for not completely fucking it up like he has a lot of other things. Obama had a record level stimulus package estimated at 831 Billion dollars. In one-quarter Trump out performs Obama in 16 quarters. If tax cuts are approved, the difference will be magnified, and note Trump isn’t borrowing 831 Billion dollars to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/69 "2017-08-09T11:40:01Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Many very smart people predicted that Trump would bring dark times. > > 😃 I wouldn’t necessarily call the people you are referring to as smart. Most of them felt Trump had no chance of winning the Presidency. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/70 "2017-08-09T13:01:29Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Obama had a record level stimulus package estimated at 831 Billion dollars. In one-quarter Trump out performs Obama in 16 quarters. > > If tax cuts are approved, the difference will be magnified, and note Trump isn’t borrowing 831 Billion dollars to do it. Interesting statement. If he’s not borrowing the money, how is he paying for the tax cuts? I’ve seen nothing that says the tax cuts will be revenue neutral, but I’d be happy to be proven wrong. What I have seen is that they will have a 10-year sunset so they could be passed by a simple majority, like the Bush tax cuts. If he’s not making major cuts to military spending, social security, or medicare, he’s not paying for any tax cuts. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/71 "2017-08-09T13:07:20Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Obama had a record level stimulus package estimated at 831 Billion dollars. In one-quarter Trump out performs Obama in 16 quarters. > > If tax cuts are approved, the difference will be magnified, and note Trump isn’t borrowing 831 Billion dollars to do it. Be honest, do you understand what the numbers you’re quoting mean? I don’t think you do, but just in case, could you explain it to me? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/72 "2017-08-09T14:25:37Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Obama had a record level stimulus package estimated at 831 Billion dollars. In one-quarter Trump out performs Obama in 16 quarters. > > If tax cuts are approved, the difference will be magnified, and note Trump isn’t borrowing 831 Billion dollars to do it. You really have zero idea about how an economy works, do you? Tax cuts? Take a look at Kansas and get back to us. ---
**Author:** ![ThisIsTheEnd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thisistheend/32/4713_2.png) [@ThisIsTheEnd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisIsTheEnd)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/73 "2017-08-09T19:07:17Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Be honest, do you understand what the numbers you’re quoting mean? I don’t think you do, but just in case, could you explain it to me? [It’s fuckin’ magic!](https://youtu.be/kJiUVp890TY?t=2m33s) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/74 "2017-08-09T21:58:37Z")
By the way, **Silver lining** - are you aware that the Federal Fiscal year runs from 10/1/16 to 9/30/17? All those numbers you’ve been bragging about? Jobs? Dow? Unemployment? All Obama. Trump’s shit doesn’t take effect until 10/1/17. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2017, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/75 "2017-08-10T01:49:22Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Obama had a record level stimulus package estimated at 831 Billion dollars. In one-quarter Trump out performs Obama in 16 quarters. Obama needed to give the economy a stimulus because he inherited an economy that had just had a financial meltdown and corresponding huge contraction in demand. It takes a stimulus to turn around an economy from shedding 700,000 + jobs per month to gaining 200,000 jobs per month. That is a change of in level of job growth of nearly + 1,000,000 jobs per month. If it weren’t for Obama’s aggressive moves (and, perhaps not as aggressive as was actually most desirable, as some economists like Paul Krugman have argued), we will be talking about “The Second Great Depression” instead of “The Great Recession”. By contrast, Trump inherited an economy producing about 200,000 jobs per month and it is still doing about the same. Are you really not capable of comprehending this distinction? [By the way, I have no idea what you mean by “In one-quarter Trump out performs Obama in 16 quarters.” You might want to actually explain by what metric you reach that conclusion.] ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2017, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/76 "2017-08-10T02:34:02Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > [By the way, I have no idea what you mean by “In one-quarter Trump out performs Obama in 16 quarters.” You might want to actually explain by what metric you reach that conclusion.] Metric? What metric? It just _feels_ that way. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2017, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/77 "2017-08-10T06:00:02Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > It’s interesting to me how terrible, awful, disastrous the economy was last year and how wonderful, great, YUGE it is now that Captain Cheeto’s at the helm. I just saw this thread. Thank you to **Johnny Ace** and others for already giving my own reaction. But do give the right-wing credit for consistency: 2009 was the worst(_) economic year of our lifetimes and that’s all newly-elected Obama’s fault, so newly-elected Trump gets all the credit for … for what? 2017? **(It’s barely half over!)** (_ - 1982 was also a bad year but, since foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, I’m sure Goppers are happy to blame 1982 on Carter.) Let me ask OP: If I give affection-starved Donald a big “Well done, Boy!” will OP be happy to post a retraction if the Dow-Jones falls below Obama levels in 2018? > [@Silver\_lining](#): > > The numbers are the numbers. It seems like some just can’t give any credit… > Just check out the news, which you won’t be hearing on say CNN. Despite the horrid economy he was given to start with, by the time Obama left office, employment was better than at any time during the GWB Administration. _Who_ is not giving credit? And as for “won’t be hearing on … CNN” all I can say is _ **Oh My! I guess America’s Fake News Syndrome is here to stay.** _ > [@Silver\_lining](#): > > From a math and numbers point, Trump has already passed Obama 8’s years in six months. And he did it without borrowing billions. FACT, FACT, FACT. If CNN points this out,I’ll fall out of my chair. I’ve already used up my “Oh My” for the thread. And I’m about to sputter coffee all over the screen. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2017, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/78 "2017-08-10T08:34:34Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > The stock market is a measurement of whether rich people think they’ll get richer in the short term. You might care to check to see how much of your pension is tied up in the stock market. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2017, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/79 "2017-08-10T11:41:07Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Interesting statement. If he’s not borrowing the money, how is he paying for the tax cuts? I’ve seen nothing that says the tax cuts will be revenue neutral, but I’d be happy to be proven wrong. What I have seen is that they will have a 10-year sunset so they could be passed by a simple majority, like the Bush tax cuts. If he’s not making major cuts to military spending, social security, or medicare, he’s not paying for any tax cuts. Let’s think about that. Suppose Trump with the tax cuts, a motto to build in the USA, and other incentives creates 2,000,000 new jobs. Isn’t that 2,000,000 new people paying taxes, funding social security, and spending money into the economy? Yes, it is. The USA has some national treasures in Google, Facebook, Amazon…the tech giants. Suppose they built and hired here as opposed to overseas, and didn’t have to park their cash outside of the country. That would make a difference for sure. The USA tax for corporations is 2d highest among industrialized nations. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2017, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836/80 "2017-08-10T11:44:23Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > Obama needed to give the economy a stimulus because he inherited an economy that had just had a financial meltdown and corresponding huge contraction in demand. It takes a stimulus to turn around an economy from shedding 700,000 + jobs per month to gaining 200,000 jobs per month. That is a change of in level of job growth of nearly + 1,000,000 jobs per month. If it weren’t for Obama’s aggressive moves (and, perhaps not as aggressive as was actually most desirable, as some economists like Paul Krugman have argued), we will be talking about “The Second Great Depression” instead of “The Great Recession”. > > By contrast, Trump inherited an economy producing about 200,000 jobs per month and it is still doing about the same. > > Are you really not capable of comprehending this distinction? > > [By the way, I have no idea what you mean by “In one-quarter Trump out performs Obama in 16 quarters.” You might want to actually explain by what metric you reach that conclusion.] Still blaming Bush? Obama had the weakest recovery from a recession since the great depression and did it by robbing from the next generation. If you want to look at Bush years, he had 6 years of growth and 2 bad years. The bad years happened when the Dem’s took control of Congress. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-six-months-under-trump-economically-speaking/792836.md?page=5)