# The five billion dollar wall **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 21, 2018, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495 "2018-12-21T15:50:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2019, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/181 "2019-01-09T06:46:12Z")
At the Democrats request, Trump has agreed to build the wall out of California redwoods. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2019, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/182 "2019-01-09T12:54:10Z")
Trump made this wall a symbol of the hatred and bigotry he spewed during the campaign, and inextricably linked to that is all the hatred and bigotry he spewed in the years before as well as since becoming president. As such, the Democrats will continue to oppose it. Trump rose to prominence on spreading an evidence-free racist conspiracy theory, and then on racist comments about Mexicans, along with the wall, and wall has become a symbol of all of that – both for his supporters and his detractors. There’s no way the party that prides itself on diversity and opposing bigotry could ever go along with such a symbol. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2019, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/183 "2019-01-09T17:48:36Z")
**HurricaneDitka** , you seem to only post in these threads to snipe at points you think you’ll win. But this is great debates, so let’s ask, do you think the US should spend $25B+ in taxpayer dollars for a 1000+ mile wall along the southern border? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2019, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/184 "2019-01-09T21:09:40Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > **HurricaneDitka** , you seem to only post in these threads to snipe at points you think you’ll win. … I guess that’s the closest we’ll get to a concession that you did indeed go awry with your complaint about border security experience. > [@steronz](#): > > … But this is great debates, so let’s ask, do you think the US should spend $25B+ in taxpayer dollars for a 1000+ mile wall along the southern border? In a word, “no”, it wouldn’t be my first choice. It’s also a _LONG_ ways down my list of things that I think the US should not spend taxpayer dollars for. Generally, I would like to see border security be more of a priority for the federal government than it has been previously. I’m not rigidly stuck on the idea that that has to mean a 30-foot concrete wall along every inch of the southern border (and neither is President Trump apparently). Walls probably make sense in some sections. Fences or vehicle impediments and other surveillance means in other parts. I don’t think there’s anything “immoral” about physical barriers as part of our border security strategy. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2019, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/185 "2019-01-09T21:18:12Z")
Who said some physical barriers as part of our overall border security strategy is immoral? Because that’s exactly what we already have now. Pelosi said Trump’s wall, which is the one he’s been promising you guys that will cover the entire border, that Mexico will pay for, is immoral. It is. It would be devastating to the environment in many areas along the border. It will ruin the habitat for many species that live in that area. It’s also racist. And would cost an insane amount of money that we could be using to, I don’t know, help our most vulnerable citizens? Not a moral use of taxpayer money. Sounds like you don’t even want Trump’s wall so why the hell are you defending him on this? Just force of habit? Refusal to agree with the libs on anything? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2019, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/186 "2019-01-09T21:18:57Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I guess that’s the closest we’ll get to a concession that you did indeed go awry with your complaint about border security experience. > > In a word, “no”, it wouldn’t be my first choice. It’s also a _LONG_ ways down my list of things that I think the US should not spend taxpayer dollars for. Generally, I would like to see border security be more of a priority for the federal government than it has been previously. I’m not rigidly stuck on the idea that that has to mean a 30-foot concrete wall along every inch of the southern border (and neither is President Trump apparently). Walls probably make sense in some sections. Fences or vehicle impediments and other surveillance means in other parts. I don’t think there’s anything “immoral” about physical barriers as part of our border security strategy. Why do you spend so much time on pedantic nitpicking of arguments against the wall, when you just said that you agree with the Democratic position? It’s an honest question. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2019, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/187 "2019-01-09T21:25:31Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > In a word, “no”, it wouldn’t be my first choice. It’s also a _LONG_ ways down my list of things that I think the US should not spend taxpayer dollars for. Generally, I would like to see border security be more of a priority for the federal government than it has been previously. I’m not rigidly stuck on the idea that that has to mean a 30-foot concrete wall along every inch of the southern border (and neither is President Trump apparently). Walls probably make sense in some sections. Fences or vehicle impediments and other surveillance means in other parts. I don’t think there’s anything “immoral” about physical barriers as part of our border security strategy. It seems to me, then, that your only interest in politics is “owning the libs”. I’ve seen this in other conservatives I’ve talked to about this shutdown. They seem to grock that shutdowns cost money, and that this shutdown is basically just lighting taxpayer dollars on fire. They also don’t seem to be fans of the wall, at least not ones they have to pay for. Yet they continue to bring up nonsense like the Secure Fence Act and how maybe it makes Democrats look like hypocrites. Why? Why bother fighting on this one? Is wasting your tax dollars really worth scoring whatever internet points you might be trying to win? Just call Trump an idiot, join with those putting pressure on him to drop this wall nonsense, and we can get on with arguing about guns or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2019, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/188 "2019-01-09T21:27:39Z")
It’s a pathology. They have been trained that they must never ever agree with the libs on anything, and never ever stop fighting. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2019, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/189 "2019-01-09T22:17:46Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Why do you spend so much time on pedantic nitpicking of arguments against the wall, when you just said that you agree with the Democratic position? > > It’s an honest question. AFAICT, I don’t agree with the Democratic position. [Pelosi said “a wall is an immorality”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gd3fynanB5E) (I disagree) and it appears that they are fervently opposed to funding new physical barriers on the southern border (I disagree again). Have I misunderstood “the Democratic position”? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2019, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/190 "2019-01-09T22:22:47Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > AFAICT, I don’t agree with the Democratic position. [Pelosi said “a wall is an immorality”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gd3fynanB5E) (I disagree) and it appears that they are fervently opposed to funding new physical barriers on the southern border (I disagree again). Have I misunderstood “the Democratic position”? Yes, you’ve misunderstood the Democratic position, but many people have explained it to you and so if you’re claiming now to actually want to learn about “the other side,” well, color me skeptical. Your behavior suggests that you’re not actually interested in learning. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2019, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/191 "2019-01-09T22:24:07Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > It seems to me, then, that your only interest in politics is “owning the libs”. I’ve seen this in other conservatives I’ve talked to about this shutdown. … You are mistaken. My fundamental interest in politics is to see my preferred policies enacted. > [@steronz](#): > > … They seem to grock that shutdowns cost money, and that this shutdown is basically just lighting taxpayer dollars on fire. They also don’t seem to be fans of the wall, at least not ones they have to pay for. Yet they continue to bring up nonsense like the Secure Fence Act and how maybe it makes Democrats look like hypocrites. Why? Why bother fighting on this one? Is wasting your tax dollars really worth scoring whatever internet points you might be trying to win? Just call Trump an idiot, join with those putting pressure on him to drop this wall nonsense, and we can get on with arguing about guns or whatever. “The wall” (a full-border-length 2000-mile stretch of concrete wall) is not what this shutdown is about. It’s about $5B. That’s going to buy a bit more wall / fencing / physical barriers than we have today. Somehow, that seems wildly racist / immoral to a good number of leftists. That’s also a position I do not agree with. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2019, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/192 "2019-01-09T22:25:11Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > AFAICT, I don’t agree with the Democratic position. [Pelosi said “a wall is an immorality”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gd3fynanB5E) (I disagree) and it appears that they are fervently opposed to funding new physical barriers on the southern border (I disagree again). Have I misunderstood “the Democratic position”? Maybe the official Democratic position consists of more that that “a wall is a immorality” phrase you have jerked out of context and sunk your teeth into in a desperate attempt to not agree with Democrats at any cost? I’m pretty sure they have an official website where they spell out their official position on The Wall-have you tried going there? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2019, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/193 "2019-01-09T22:25:51Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > It’s a pathology. They have been trained that they must never ever agree with the libs on anything, and never ever stop fighting. You’re wrong too. There are some things I agree with liberals on. “A wall is an immorality” is just not one of them. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2019, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/194 "2019-01-09T22:27:15Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Maybe the official Democratic position consists of more that that “a wall is a immorality” phrase you have jerked out of context and sunk your teeth into in a desperate attempt to not agree with Democrats at any cost? I’m pretty sure they have an official website where they spell out their official position on The Wall-have you tried going there? Is this a reference to their party platform or something else? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2019, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/195 "2019-01-09T22:29:14Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > “The wall” (a full-border-length 2000-mile stretch of concrete wall) is not what this shutdown is about. It’s about $5B. That’s going to buy a bit more wall / fencing / physical barriers than we have today. Patent nonsense. If it were about reasonable border security measures, congressional Republicans would have given the money to Trump rather than shut down the government. This charitable interpretation of the situation is at odds with reality, and anyone who’s been paying attention for the last 3 years knows it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2019, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/196 "2019-01-09T22:29:37Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > “The wall” (a full-border-length 2000-mile stretch of concrete wall) is not what this shutdown is about. It’s about $5B. That’s going to buy a bit more wall / fencing / physical barriers than we have today. Somehow, that seems wildly racist / immoral to a good number of leftists. That’s also a position I do not agree with. Where the hell has Trump outlined exactly what he wants the money for, beside for building The Wall? Your personal opinion as to what you think it should be spent for doesn’t even figure into this equation. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2019, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/197 "2019-01-09T22:33:05Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > … > “The wall” (a full-border-length 2000-mile stretch of concrete wall) is not what this shutdown is about. It’s about $5B. … It is the ONLY thing Trump shut the government down for. For example, take your idea of the wall, border security, what have you. Now have Trump endorse that plan. (A wall unlike what he campaigned on.) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2019, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/198 "2019-01-09T22:34:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Where the hell has Trump outlined exactly what he wants the money for, beside for building The Wall? Your personal opinion as to what you think it should be spent for doesn’t even figure into this equation. I don’t know about the word “exactly”, but I did a pretty good job of answering this already. Just scroll up the page to post #157: > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > … President Trump has requested $5B in this budget to “build primary wall or physical barriers in the areas of greatest need” (from [a presentation the White House sent to congress four days ago](https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/president-trump-sends-letter-border-security/)). That’s not “a 2000 mile wall” like some here are pretending. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2019, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/199 "2019-01-09T22:35:39Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > It is the ONLY thing Trump shut the government down for. For example, take your idea of the wall, border security, what have you. Now have Trump endorse that plan. (A wall unlike what he campaigned on.) He already has (endorsed a plan different than he campaigned on). Did you miss all the “steel slats” discussion? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2019, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/200 "2019-01-09T22:38:13Z")
His “plan” for physical barriers amounts to one sentence. Do I understand that correctly? eta: One sentence and a tweet of a picture, my bad. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495.md?page=11)