# The five billion dollar wall **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 21, 2018, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495 "2018-12-21T15:50:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Ancient\_Erudite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Ancient\_Erudite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ancient_Erudite)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/421 "2019-01-14T21:36:19Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It’s moderately effective, it is mostly there to keep drugs out. > > [PolitiFact | Would Trump’s border wall cost the same as one and a half U.S. aircraft carriers?](https://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2017/apr/28/scott-peters/would-trumps-border-wall-cost-same-one-and-half-us/) > > Trumps wall would cost $21B and $150M a year for maintenance. > > Of course it could cost more, maybe $70B. > > This is grandstanding. Trump could get the GOP to slip that $5B in for drug interdiction, and it would sail thru. What are the annual costs to shelter, and deport illegal immigrants? And how can we put a dollar amount on the 100,000+ victims that would not have been victimized if there was a border wall? In another thread, it was mentioned if Trump used his executive order power, he could charge every Mexican $100 more to enter the USA. With 20 million legal border crossings a year that means 2 billion a year in revenue. The wall could be paid for up to 6 billion in three years assuming the traffic remains the same. Why not do this? ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/422 "2019-01-14T21:44:04Z")
> [@Ancient\_Erudite](#): > > In another thread, it was mentioned if Trump used his executive order power, he could charge every Mexican $100 more to enter the USA. With 20 million legal border crossings a year that means 2 billion a year in revenue. The wall could be paid for up to 6 billion in three years assuming the traffic remains the same. Why not do this? Because it would fuck up the economy for Americans who live along the border. And “assuming the traffic remains the same” is funny. People nip over for quick shopping trips. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/423 "2019-01-14T21:46:33Z")
> [@Ancient\_Erudite](#): > > What are the annual costs to shelter, and deport illegal immigrants? > > And how can we put a dollar amount on the 100,000+ victims that would not have been victimized if there was a border wall? > > In another thread, it was mentioned if Trump used his executive order power, he could charge every Mexican $100 more to enter the USA. With 20 million legal border crossings a year that means 2 billion a year in revenue. The wall could be paid for up to 6 billion in three years assuming the traffic remains the same. Why not do this? :rolleyes: Because many Mexicans will see that price and not come to visit. Even less by knowing what the fee is for. Of course that points to the idea that assumes that they are dumb, but as ex-president Fox showed, they are not; assuming that they are dumb is a typical idea coming from sources that do listen to the bad angels of their nature. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/424 "2019-01-14T21:48:33Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > The phrase “the wall” is now being used disingenuously as a straw man among detractors. there is no plan to build a 30-foot tall wall from gun to ocean. The plan on the table is to supplement the existing barriers (which work!) with about 240 miles of additional barriers, most recently described as steel slats. Do you have a cite for this 240 mile plan? I’m finding nothing on it. Also, barriers which work to do what? Most of the barrier in the Sonoran desert is composed of short fence posts that work to block vehicles but not pedestrians. And where is this 240 miles of additional barrier going to go? Along the 1,241 milesTexas border, of which only 115 miles is fenced? Even if I believed there were a sudden crisis and this barrier was a good idea, I’m not seeing how an additional 240 miles would do much. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/425 "2019-01-14T21:51:48Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > What? > > Are you high? This makes no sense whatsoever. If Pelosi and Schumer actually wanted a secure border they’d in one action: 1) reopen the government and, 2) wait for it…have a more secure border. But they won’t. Why? Because it would give Trump a little win. It appears true that their hatred for Trump eclipses their love of country and our sovereignty. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/426 "2019-01-14T21:53:36Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > If Pelosi and Schumer actually wanted a secure border they’d in one action: 1) reopen the government and, 2) wait for it…have a more secure border. > > But they won’t. Why? Because it would give Trump a little win. It appears true that their hatred for Trump eclipses their love of country and our sovereignty. Apparently you think it’s impossible to honestly disagree on the best way to achieve a secure border. Best wishes on the non-negotiation tactic of offering _absolutely nothing_ in exchange for something _the other party opposes_, while the public overwhelmingly sides with the other party! ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/427 "2019-01-14T21:55:18Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > Do you have a cite for this 240 mile plan? … > [@](#): > > … The Administration has requested $5.7 billion for construction of approximately 234 miles of new steel barrier on the Southern Border… [source](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/president-donald-j-trump-calls-congress-secure-borders-protect-american-people/) ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/428 "2019-01-14T21:55:48Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > There’s no such thing. > > How much marginal cost will you accepted paying for a marginal increase in security? Then show us that the proposal hits the mark better than other options No need. We agree the border will never be 100% secure. But that should be the goal. The additional 240 mile of barrier in question will go to making it more secure. Just as the existing serious barriers have done. As they border patrol will tell you. And why so many people—Pelosi and Schumer included—voted for it. What’s different now? Trump might get a little win, and they can’t stomach that, even if their intransigence and pettiness hurts the country. Trump has revealed them for the low forms of life that they are. Bravo. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/429 "2019-01-14T21:58:21Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Apparently you think it’s impossible to honestly disagree on the best way to achieve a secure border. Best wishes on the non-negotiation tactic of offering _absolutely nothing_ in exchange for something _the other party opposes_, while the public overwhelmingly sides with the other party! There is plenty of room for discussion. But they all include physical barriers in places. Talk to the border patrol. Talk to Israel. Why is it that you always want to point to “the people who know”, but not this time? Funny stuff. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/430 "2019-01-14T22:01:26Z")
> [@Ancient\_Erudite](#): > > What are the annual costs to shelter, and deport illegal immigrants? > > And how can we put a dollar amount on the 100,000+ victims that would not have been victimized if there was a border wall? > > In another thread, it was mentioned if Trump used his executive order power, he could charge every Mexican $100 more to enter the USA. With 20 million legal border crossings a year that means 2 billion a year in revenue. The wall could be paid for up to 6 billion in three years assuming the traffic remains the same. Why not do this? There are several reasons that wouldn’t work. But the main one is that you’d need to secure the border first. Otherwise, why wouldn’t they just sneak in like they do now. In fact, you just gave them more of an incentive to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/431 "2019-01-14T22:02:07Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > No need. Yes need. The previous fence was expressive, built only where BP thought it would have the highest impact and only where necessary, and was nonetheless of questionable efficacy. You want a wall? Then show us the numbers that prove it’s worth the price ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/432 "2019-01-14T22:02:11Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > The most recent attempt at negotiation ended when Pelosi said that even if he agree to end the shutdown, she would not give any money for any barrier. > > Sorry, this is on Pelosi now. Trump has repeatedly said he’ll open the government if Pelosi gives him a Wall. Pelosi has said No. There’s wide agreement that Trump is to blame for the impasse. In a surprising(?) new development, Trump says he’ll open the government if Pelosi gives him a Wall. Pelosi has said No. That means blame shifts to Pelosi. @ **Magellan01** — Study and compare my two paragraphs. Tell me what I’m missing. Thanks in advance. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/433 "2019-01-14T22:02:18Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > If Pelosi and Schumer actually wanted a secure border … It’s _very_ convincing when you state that they don’t want a secure border, as though that was synonymous with not wanting Trump’s idiot wall. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/434 "2019-01-14T22:05:46Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > If Pelosi and Schumer actually wanted a secure border they’d in one action: 1) reopen the government and, 2) wait for it…have a more secure border. > > But they won’t. Why? Because it would give Trump a little win. It appears true that their hatred for Trump eclipses their love of country and our sovereignty. I think their hatred for Trump is related to their love of country. I know that’s true in my case. The wall is stupid, but in the larger picture, it’s unimportant. Dealing Trump a severe and embarrassing loss (due primarily to his lack of political skills) may help bring about his downfall in some small way. That effort is vital for those of us who love America. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/435 "2019-01-14T22:10:35Z")
If it was such a big fucking deal, it would have been done when Republicans held both houses, though the filibuster still would have been an issue. But it wasn’t a big deal until Donnie Two Scoops had to divert attention from his treason. Hence the crisis. The most promising solution to the shutdown I’ve seem so far comes from the Borowitz Report: Kavanaugh offers to pay for wall by recycling his empties. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/436 "2019-01-14T22:11:06Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Yes need. The previous fence was expressive, built only where BP thought it would have the highest impact and only where necessary, and was nonetheless of questionable efficacy. You want a wall? Then show us the numbers that prove it’s worth the price Why do you say it was “of questionable efficacy”? The Secure Fence Act was passed in 2006. According to [the NYT,](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/20/us/politics/fact-check-trump-border-crossings-declining-.html) the number of border crossings has declined significantly since then. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/437 "2019-01-14T22:17:51Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Why do you say it was “of questionable efficacy”? The Secure Fence Act was passed in 2006. According to [the NYT,](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/20/us/politics/fact-check-trump-border-crossings-declining-.html) the number of border crossings has declined significantly since then. Then there’s no crisis, right? It would cost far less than 5 billion to simply jail business owners who hire undocumented workers. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/438 "2019-01-14T22:23:39Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Then there’s no crisis, right? … There was some decline from it’s peak, but a recent resurgence. I wouldn’t describe it as “there’s no crisis” so much as “some wall helped ease the crisis, and some more wall might help ease it even more.” > [@running\_coach](#): > > … It would cost far less than 5 billion to simply jail business owners who hire undocumented workers. I’m not sure if you were just trying to make a joke, or if this was intended as a factual claim. If it’s the former, disregard I guess. If it’s the latter, cite? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/439 "2019-01-14T22:43:49Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > There is plenty of room for discussion. But they all include physical barriers in places. Talk to the border patrol. Talk to Israel. Why is it that you always want to point to “the people who know”, but not this time? Funny stuff. No idea what you’re talking about or who you’re responding to. Did someone else talk about “the people who know”? I sure didn’t. In any case, Trump is not negotiating – he’s just making a demand and offering nothing in return. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/440 "2019-01-14T22:55:24Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > In any case, Trump is not negotiating – he’s just making a demand and offering nothing in return. Well, to be fair, Trump has no idea how to negotiate. He knows how to obstruct, and how to cave We’re just waiting for the cave. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495.md?page=23)