# The five billion dollar wall **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 21, 2018, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495 "2018-12-21T15:50:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/81 "2018-12-31T03:52:13Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > So, what did he spend the other 7 trillion on during his presidency? Just curious. Pretty much exactly what Trump is spending on now. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/82 "2018-12-31T07:13:56Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Do you really need somebody else to [look this up](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Recovery_and_Reinvestment_Act_of_2009#Provisions_of_the_Act) for you? That doesn’t count, because it wasn’t on Fox. > [@Magiver](#): > > So, what did he spend the other 7 trillion on during his presidency? Just curious. Right. Because the President sits there alone and decides how each dollar is spent. He was up all night writing checks. > [@beowulff](#): > > When is someone going to point out the real reason Trump wants the wall? As I mentioned in another thread, Trump doesn’t really want a wall, or care if it’s actually built. (If he really cared about getting an actual wall built, he has had opportunities to make it happen before, but he doesn’t take those opportunities.) All Trump wants is the rhetorical battle around the wall, and the optics that provides. We can’t understand this situation if we don’t realize this. ---
**Author:** ![upend](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b3f665/32.png) [@upend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/upend)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/83 "2018-12-31T12:15:12Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > If by “you” you mean Steve McQueen. to be fair he didnt jump it. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/84 "2018-12-31T23:05:31Z")
> [@Ancient\_Erudite](#): > > If Trump wanted to, he could make Mexico pay for it. They depend on us for 85% of their exports. Why not just put on a tariff of whatever percentage he might need until the wall is built and paid for? Maybe he can get your [pyramid aliens](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21404795&postcount=27) to help build it. ---
**Author:** ![SigMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@SigMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SigMan)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/85 "2018-12-31T23:34:49Z")
The wall is a joke. Just put the soldiers on border and let them shoot them on sight. Words will get around. Anyway, why are we sending money to Mexico? Why don’t we fix our own problems and them theirs? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2019, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/86 "2019-01-01T03:20:22Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > Right. Because the President sits there alone and decides how each dollar is spent. He was up all night writing checks. so only legislation with his name on it counts and none from his party? > [@guizot](#): > > As I mentioned in another thread, Trump doesn’t really want a wall, or care if it’s actually built. (If he really cared about getting an actual wall built, he has had opportunities to make it happen before, but he doesn’t take those opportunities.) > All Trump wants is the rhetorical battle around the wall, and the optics that provides. We can’t understand this situation if we don’t realize this. So Obama and HRC were looking for a rhetorical battle when they voted money for the wall? Those bastards. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2019, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/87 "2019-01-01T04:29:06Z")
> [@SigMan](#): > > Anyway, why are we sending money to Mexico? Why don’t we fix our own problems and them theirs? We do. That’s why we send the money to Mexico - to fix our problems. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2019, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/88 "2019-01-01T14:50:33Z")
> [@Ancient\_Erudite](#): > > I’d venture to say a 5 billion dollar investment the taxpayers would see an ROI in a few years How about you venture to show us a real cost benefit analysis with verifiable numbers. Let’s see your math. Of course you won’t show us this because you don’t have one and don’t actually know what the relevant data are. But it will be fun to either see you try or avoid backing up your “venture” entirely. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2019, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/89 "2019-01-01T14:56:18Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > For the _n_th time: [**Most of the people known as “illegal immigrants” _entered the US LEGALLY_.**](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/visa-overstays-outnumber-illegal-border-crossings-trend-expected-continue-n730216) You liberals are so cute, with your antiquated notions like _“Facts Matter.”_ ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2019, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/90 "2019-01-01T16:04:10Z")
> [@SigMan](#): > > The wall is a joke. Just put the soldiers on border and let them shoot them on sight. Words will get around. > > Anyway, why are we sending money to Mexico? Why don’t we fix our own problems and them theirs? “Poor Mexico, so far from God and so close to the United States!” - Porfirio Diaz ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2019, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/91 "2019-01-01T16:16:11Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > so only legislation with his name on it counts and none from his party? > > So Obama and HRC were looking for a rhetorical battle when they voted money for the wall? Those bastards. Why don’t you do us all a favor and define what wall you and Trump are talking about? After all, we know that the border with Mexico has oodles of barriers of many kinds stretching across hundreds of miles. These barriers have been extremely effective since the number of illegals entering the country has been dropping for years. Now, we can probably agree that these barriers could use some improvements, and that’s why the Republicans voted $1.3 billion for it in the CR. But that’s not the “wall.” Trump says so. So nothing anybody has voted on in the past counts for the purpose of defining the wall. Trump wants $5 billion to pay for something. What is that something? We all know that the something is not a full wall across the southern border. Everybody on every side of the issue agrees that the cost of the wall would be many times that amount. Trump wants the money for some teeny tiny piece that by his own definition won’t stop illegal entrance. What is that piece? Is it a concrete wall? John Kelly says that a concrete wall was abandoned by Trump a long time ago. And Trump sometimes calls the wall a fence. Kellyanne Conway used that as a defense of Trump. Yet Trump repudiated her, saying that his wall will be concrete. Which doesn’t match up with the steel slats he tweeted about, along with an actual picture of actual steel slats that he described as being see-through and declared that attribute to be a great help to the border patrol. Are steel slats the wall now? Are the spaces in between going to be filled in with concrete? Will they stretch to fit all the miles needed to make up the unpaid for gaps? Is the wall just a metaphor, as Lindsey Graham suggests? [Soap]“Confused? You won’t be, after Magiver explains to us in full and complete detail what’s in Trump’s head on the next episode of _Dope_.”[/Soap] ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2019, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/92 "2019-01-01T17:07:52Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > So Obama and HRC were looking for a rhetorical battle when they voted money for the wall? No, they weren’t. That’s the difference. They didn’t run around the country chanting “build the wall” to squeak through their elections. For Trump, it’s the main act of his dog-and-pony show. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/93 "2019-01-02T11:49:41Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > …[Soap]“Confused? You won’t be, after Magiver explains to us in full and complete detail what’s in Trump’s head on the next episode of _Dope_.”[/Soap] What would be appropriate? A “spoiler alert”, maybe? Maybe a “parental advisory”, if my son calls me and warns me not to look. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/94 "2019-01-02T13:47:52Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > So Obama and HRC were looking for a rhetorical battle when they voted money for the wall? Those bastards. By this standard, Democrats have already funded the wall. Why do we need to build it again, and NOT HAVE MEXICO PAY FOR IT? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/95 "2019-01-02T18:48:40Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > By this standard, Democrats have already funded the wall. Why do we need to build it again, and NOT HAVE MEXICO PAY FOR IT? From the articles in the Times today, it seems that this funding never got passed since it was tied in to some immigration reform which the Republicans torpedoed. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/96 "2019-01-02T18:58:50Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > From the articles in the Times today, it seems that this funding never got passed since it was tied in to some immigration reform which the Republicans torpedoed. Different issue. Obama and Clinton voted for “wall” funding before Trump was in office. Ergo, the first wall was already funded. ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/97 "2019-01-02T19:02:30Z")
> [@bizerta](#): > > Why isn’t anyone saying, “Hey, Mr. President, you promised that Mexico would pay for the wall.”? Why isn’t anyone around here smart enough to realize “the Wall” is just a euphemism for immigration and border security policy? Trump’s base surely isn’t. But it is a simple concept easily understood by people who otherwise get easily confused by complicated issues. Dems should take a lesson. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/98 "2019-01-02T19:07:07Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > Why isn’t anyone around here smart enough to realize “the Wall” is just a euphemism for immigration and border security policy? Trump’s base surely isn’t. But it is a simple concept easily understood by people who otherwise get easily confused by complicated issues. > > Dems should take a lesson. If the debate was actually about putting more sensors and so on at the border, Dems would – and have – voted for that in substantial numbers. No, the issue is a physical wall. It can’t be a euphemism when the guy proposing it talks about specific designs – from thirty feet high concrete walls, to now it’s some babble about steel slats. In reality, “the Wall” is a euphemism for racism against poor wretches fleeing horrific violence. It’s a euphemism for “Fuck you, go die in your own country because we don’t want your kind here.” ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/99 "2019-01-02T19:43:46Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > Why isn’t anyone around here smart enough to realize “the Wall” is just a euphemism for immigration and border security policy? Trump’s base surely isn’t. But it is a simple concept easily understood by people who otherwise get easily confused by complicated issues. > > Dems should take a lesson. “We are at war with Eastasia. We have always been at war with Eastasia.” Stranger ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/100 "2019-01-02T19:52:46Z")
> [@K364](#): > > I have some basic questions: > > There must be some kind of fence or wall in place now. How effective is it? > > If it is not 100% effective, then how bad is the problem, and is it worth spending billions on fixing it? > > (Trump wants 5B, but that’s just the start) I suggest a better question might be: Does anyone actually understand the real cost of maintaining effective border security? On ANY border? The answer is as always of course, it depends. Apparently nobody in government can agree on the definition of that concept in terms of Federal budgetary constraints. So we make it a campaign issue, get everybody gen’d up one way or another and the problem just gets worse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495.md?page=6)