# The five billion dollar wall **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 21, 2018, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495 "2018-12-21T15:50:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/101 "2019-01-02T19:56:19Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > Why isn’t anyone around here smart enough to realize “the Wall” is just a euphemism for immigration and border security policy? Because it isn’t. Every time some Republican tries to make this claim, Trump flies into a snit and twits that the wall is an actual concrete wall. You can try to make the clam that Trump is so much of an idiot that we shouldn’t pay any attention to his written and spoken words, no matter how forcefully expressed. We will buy that. But then it’s hard to make any arguments on any side if there is no agreement about what we’re talking about and Trump himself is not providing any guidance. Let Trump provide his complete plan for combating illegal immigration, including a final price tag, and we can start examining it. Until then, all he gets is mockery for his idiocy, hypocrisy, and bluster. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/102 "2019-01-02T20:02:39Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > I suggest a better question might be: Does anyone actually understand the real cost of maintaining effective border security? On ANY border? Oh, people can estimate the costs of putting more walls or people on the border. That’s totally easy to do. The real question is, is spending more money on walls and whatnot just a waste of money? Considering how illegal immigration has declined over the last two decades ([cite)](https://www.factcheck.org/2017/07/trumps-border-boast/) the answer would seem to be, yep. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/103 "2019-01-02T20:06:14Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > Why isn’t anyone around here smart enough to realize “the Wall” is just a euphemism for immigration and border security policy? Trump’s base surely isn’t. But it is a simple concept easily understood by people who otherwise get easily confused by complicated issues. > > Dems should take a lesson. If it’s a euphemism (I’d probably call it more of a metonym), then great! Let Congress appropriate funds for immigration and border security measures that might actually do some good, call it the TRUMP-WALL Act (someone else can reverse-engineer the acronym), Donnie can scribble his squiggle on it while making his “Presidential tough guy” face, and everybody goes home happy. (Well… except maybe for a lot of red-hatted Trumpeteers who are going to show up at his next Hurrendurrh Rally so angry they’re grinding their tooth.) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/104 "2019-01-02T20:06:25Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Oh, people can estimate the costs of putting more walls or people on the border. That’s totally easy to do. > > The real question is, is spending more money on walls and whatnot just a waste of money? Considering how illegal immigration has declined over the last two decades ([cite)](https://www.factcheck.org/2017/07/trumps-border-boast/) the answer would seem to be, yep. Well, we need enuf border control to make smuggling harder. But there’s little reason to waste it on keeping people who want to work out of the country. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/105 "2019-01-02T20:11:30Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > If it’s a euphemism (I’d probably call it more of a metonym), then great! Let Congress appropriate funds for immigration and border security measures that might actually do some good, call it the **TRUMP-WALL** Act (someone else can reverse-engineer the acronym), Donnie can scribble his squiggle on it while making his “Presidential tough guy” face, and everybody goes home happy. > > (Well… except maybe for a lot of red-hatted Trumpeteers who are going to show up at his next Hurrendurrh Rally so angry they’re grinding their tooth.) Wailing Asshole Loss Leader ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/106 "2019-01-02T22:11:35Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > You liberals are so cute, with your antiquated notions like _“Facts Matter.”_ That’s the heart of the problem: facts. Facts have a well-known liberal bias. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/107 "2019-01-02T23:34:04Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Different issue. Obama and Clinton voted for “wall” funding before Trump was in office. Ergo, the first wall was already funded. They torpedoed immigration reform well before Trump. Still, it is true that Dems vote for reasonable fences. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/108 "2019-01-02T23:46:51Z")
I saw a cartoon recently captioned “Trump’s Actual Wall”, in which a mason was laying bricks on the Wall, as its end was drawing closer to the US-Mexico border. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/109 "2019-01-03T00:14:47Z")
Here’s an exchange that appeared on Fox News between host [Leland Vittert and conservative journalist David Mark](https://www.rawstory.com/2019/01/fox-host-berates-goper-wall-youre-telling-two-years-white-house-couldnt-come-plan/): > [@](#): > > “This brings up an important point though of what does this wall look like?” the Fox News host continued. “We haven’t heard that from the administration. We’ve seen some tweets from the president that have steel slats with spikes on top, he’s talked about how it’s going to be. It will be big, it’s going to be beautiful, it’s going to do all these things.” > > “But even Republicans in Congress have told me, ‘Look, it would be a lot easier to fight Democrats on this if we actually had a plan — and that we’re going to have a concrete wall from here to here, we’re going to have a wall with slats so Border Patrol can see through it from there to there, etc.,'” the Fox News host noted. > > “The problem for the administration is there are so many variables,” Mark agreed. “It’s not just a matter of construction, it’s environmental rules, it’s eminent domain, actually the government taking properties from private land owners.” > > “This is the president of the United States’ signature domestic policy,” Vittert interrupted. “That and probably repeal and replace of Obamacare that he campaigned on. It’s been two years, are you telling me in two years, DHS and the White House couldn’t come up with this plan and say, ‘Here’s the plan for the wall. Now go enact it, Congress.'” > > “I don’t think for the Trump administration it’s really about those kinds of specifics,” Mark conceded. “It’s about telling his political base they are working on a wall, whether it’s metaphorical — parts of the U.S.-Mexico border literally could not have a wall because it’s along the Rio Grande.” I’m still waiting for Magiver to come back and give us the plan. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/110 "2019-01-03T01:54:43Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > Seems like it would be more cost effective to just buy the drugs outright and then destroy them before they get to the US. Fights the war on drugs and no need for the wall. Not sure if you heard that the war is over: Drugs won. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/111 "2019-01-05T02:27:28Z")
[Trump now says](https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/04/politics/trump-border-wall-national-emergency-declaration/index.html) he might declare a national emergency and use military funds to build the wall. The Pentagon says there’s $1-2 billion. The rest would come out of military construction projects the Pentagon deems critical for preparedness. Trump’s remark, “I can do it if I want” may best summarize his approach to the presidency. ---
**Author:** ![Ancient\_Erudite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Ancient\_Erudite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ancient_Erudite)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/112 "2019-01-05T02:28:37Z")
Out of this 5 billion, how much of it is labor cost? It would be ironic is Trump hired Mexicans, or brought in people from over seas from India to work for cheap to build his wall. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/113 "2019-01-05T02:41:45Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Not sure if you heard that the war is over: Drugs won. They had one hell of a victory party, too. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/114 "2019-01-05T02:42:47Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > Trump’s remark, “I can do it if I want” may best summarize his approach to the presidency. It’s the attitude of a petulant three year old. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/115 "2019-01-05T07:09:13Z")
> [@Ancient\_Erudite](#): > > Out of this 5 billion, how much of it is labor cost? > > It would be ironic is Trump hired Mexicans, or brought in people from over seas from India to work for cheap to build his wall. Since that seems to be how he staffs his resorts, no doubt. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/116 "2019-01-05T19:33:22Z")
I bet he could get Roger Waters to build the Wall for a lot less. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/117 "2019-01-05T19:37:20Z")
Can they instead build a small symbolic wall in Washington with TRUMP written on it to the benefit of homeless people and dogs needing a place to urinate? ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/118 "2019-01-05T21:32:11Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, we need enuf border control to make smuggling harder. I wonder how much smuggling there is through controlled checkpoints vs elsewhere. Plenty of desperate people willing to hide contraband on their person or in their vehicle. In all the time I crossed between Cd. Juárez and El Paso, I got dog-sniffed on foot once and never in a car. But that’s hardly a good sample size. And I haven’t done it in a while. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2019, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/119 "2019-01-06T00:23:40Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > I wonder how much smuggling there is through controlled checkpoints vs elsewhere. Plenty of desperate people willing to hide contraband on their person or in their vehicle. In all the time I crossed between Cd. Juárez and El Paso, I got dog-sniffed on foot once and never in a car. But that’s hardly a good sample size. And I haven’t done it in a while. > **[Fact-checking the DHS border presentation](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/01/05/politics/dhs-border-control-presentation/index.html)** > > The Trump administration is continuing to raise alarm about the situation along the southern US border, as it urges Congress to provide funds to build additional barriers in the region. This says that marijuana is typically smuggled in between ports of entry, and hard drugs are smuggled in through ports of entry. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2019, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/120 "2019-01-06T01:16:04Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Can they instead build a small symbolic wall in Washington with TRUMP written on it to the benefit of homeless people and dogs needing a place to urinate? He might go for that, as long as there were cameras, so he could watch. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495.md?page=7)