# The five billion dollar wall **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 21, 2018, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495 "2018-12-21T15:50:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/121 "2019-01-08T16:35:38Z")
:sigh: Trump hires illegal immigrants to save money. The one and only reason trump wants a wall is to hang his name and presidency on it. He doesn’t give one shit about anything but to be admired by someone. Anyone. The only good thing about Trumps election is that we have discovered just how many racist morons exist in the USA. This will get obfuscated by his handlers into muddy swamp water. Some crony will tell trump the wall is done, he will look at some pictures declare ‘victory’ and move on. Toddlers need to be told NO! If the toddler has a gun (or Presidential pen), you need to take a different approach. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/122 "2019-01-08T16:38:10Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > [Fact-checking the DHS border presentation - CNNPolitics](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/01/05/politics/dhs-border-control-presentation/index.html) > > This says that marijuana is typically smuggled in between ports of entry, and hard drugs are smuggled in through ports of entry. I’d be rather surprise if MJ is still smuggled in in any large amount. No real point if you can get the good stuff from a friend in another state. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/123 "2019-01-08T17:00:55Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > I’d be rather surprise if MJ is still smuggled in in any large amount. No real point if you can get the good stuff from a friend in another state. You might want a NORTHERN wall for that. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/124 "2019-01-08T17:07:01Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > The one and only reason trump wants a wall is to hang his name and presidency on it. To be fair, he does have one other reason – it’s a golden opportunity for graft for himself and for his Russian masters. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/125 "2019-01-08T17:14:21Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > You might want a NORTHERN wall for that. Belgium will pay for it. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/126 "2019-01-08T17:45:38Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Belgium will pay for it. In chocolate? Stranger ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/127 "2019-01-08T20:15:59Z")
Would the wall be addressing an actual problem? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/128 "2019-01-08T20:23:49Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Would the wall be addressing an actual problem? I suppose that depends on how you define “actual”. Lots of people seem to think “Immigration/Illegal aliens” is a problem: [Gallup - Immigration Up Sharply as Most Important U.S. Problem](https://news.gallup.com/poll/244925/immigration-sharply-important-problem.aspx). As to whether the wall would address it, at least partially, would you believe [the former Border Patrol Chief under Obama](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrY5HpFuz_0)? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/129 "2019-01-08T20:33:08Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > As to whether the wall would address it, at least partially, would you believe [the former Border Patrol Chief under Obama](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrY5HpFuz_0)? Why should you believe someone that Trump fired? Also, he was the first commissioner who was never a Border Patrol agent. Not exactly a font of experience, he. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/130 "2019-01-08T20:38:03Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I suppose that depends on how you define “actual”. Lots of people seem to think “Immigration/Illegal aliens” is a problem: [Gallup - Immigration Up Sharply as Most Important U.S. Problem](https://news.gallup.com/poll/244925/immigration-sharply-important-problem.aspx). > > As to whether the wall would address it, at least partially, would you believe [the former Border Patrol Chief under Obama](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrY5HpFuz_0)? \ you for making me watch Tucker Carlson. There was absolutely no substance to that interview, Mark Morgan says the data shows that walls work but then doesn’t actually tell us what that data is. There is no substance in this clip, just an appeal to… I guess I wouldn’t call it authority, but certainly a lot of “I can’t possibly be politically biased, I worked for Obama! And was fired by Trump!” [And yet…](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/26/us/politics/border-patrol-mark-morgan.html) > [@](#): > > M **r. Morgan had sent an internal email to Border Patrol staff members after the election criticizing the immigration enforcement policies of President Barack Obama and his Homeland Security secretary, Jeh C. Johnson.** > > The official said it appeared to be an attempt by Mr. Morgan to please the incoming administration, which had made border security a key campaign platform. > > Mr. Morgan, a former F.B.I. agent, was appointed chief in June and took over in October. He was the first chief in the agency’s 93-year history who had never worked as a border patrol agent. He had led the internal affairs office at Customs and Border Protection before taking over the Border Patrol. He doesn’t actually have much experience in, you know, border security. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/131 "2019-01-08T20:39:50Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I suppose that depends on how you define “actual”. \*\*Lots of people seem to think “Immigration/Illegal aliens” is a problem: \*\*[Gallup - Immigration Up Sharply as Most Important U.S. Problem](https://news.gallup.com/poll/244925/immigration-sharply-important-problem.aspx). > > As to whether the wall would address it, at least partially, would you believe [the former Border Patrol Chief under Obama](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrY5HpFuz_0)? That’s what happens when stupid people listen to a compulsive liar. Doesn’t _prove_ it’s a problem. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/132 "2019-01-08T20:41:04Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Why should you believe someone that Trump fired? > > Also, he was the first commissioner who was never a Border Patrol agent. Not exactly a font of experience, he. If we were to poll Border Patrol agents about their thoughts on physical barriers along the southern border, what do you imagine we’d find? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/133 "2019-01-08T20:43:02Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > That’s what happens when stupid people listen to a compulsive liar. > Doesn’t _prove_ it’s a problem. I started with the line “I suppose that depends on how you define “actual”.” If you’re defining it as “only things I agree are problems are actual problems”, well, that’s a bit circular, but ok then. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/134 "2019-01-08T20:44:45Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > If we were to poll Border Patrol agents about their thoughts on physical barriers along the southern border, what do you imagine we’d find? Barriers?! BARRIERS! Why would you refer to a 2000 mile wall in the plural?!? Don’t move the goal posts by pretending like Democrats are opposed to fences in targeted areas. If a fence can be built, maintained, and \*\*monitored \*\*in the right place(s), that could certainly work for certain purposes. The wall is a different boondoggle entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/135 "2019-01-08T20:55:30Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > If we were to poll Border Patrol agents about their thoughts on physical barriers along the southern border, what do you imagine we’d find? So your two cites are an opinion poll and an _imaginary_ opinion poll. Got any actual facts that show we need Trump’s wall? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/136 "2019-01-08T20:56:09Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > … pretending like Democrats are opposed to fences in targeted areas. … I got that impression from Pelosi saying “A wall is an immorality”. I didn’t realize that we were now parsing the moral differences between walls and fences. If “fence” is the word you prefer, let’s put up $5B worth of Israeli-style security fences and call it a day. > [@steronz](#): > > … If a fence can be built, maintained, and \*\*monitored \*\*in the right place(s), that could certainly work for certain purposes. … Excellent, I’m glad we agree. Go tell Nancy. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/137 "2019-01-08T20:59:52Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > … Got any actual facts that show we need Trump’s wall? I’ve already provided the former Border Patrol chief’s interview in which he supported the idea. I got the complaint that “He doesn’t actually have much experience in, you know, border security” (which makes all the uninformed opinions on the subject by non-BP-agent Dopers rather rich, don’t you think?), but lucky for us, the Border Patrol agents have chimed in on the matter: [Border Patrol agents overwhelmingly support Trump’s wall in new survey](https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/apr/2/border-patrol-agents-back-trump-wall-survey-finds/). Shall we leave it up to the experts then? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/138 "2019-01-08T21:00:36Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I got that impression from Pelosi saying “A wall is an immorality”. I didn’t realize that we were now parsing the moral differences between walls and fences. If “fence” is the word you prefer, let’s put up $5B worth of Israeli-style security fences and call it a day. Where do you want these fences? What’s wrong with the fences we have already? What will get us the most bang for our buck? What is the targeted purpose of each proposed stretch of new fence? Present a plan and we’ll discuss the merits. So far all we have is 2000 miles of “steel slats”. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/139 "2019-01-08T21:03:11Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’ve already provided the former Border Patrol chief’s interview in which he supported the idea. I got the complaint that “He doesn’t actually have much experience in, you know, border security” (which makes all the uninformed opinions on the subject by non-BP-agent Dopers rather rich, don’t you think?), but lucky for us, the Border Patrol agents have chimed in on the matter: [Border Patrol agents overwhelmingly support Trump’s wall in new survey](https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/apr/2/border-patrol-agents-back-trump-wall-survey-finds/). Shall we leave it up to the experts then? “A wall system in strategic locations.” What’s a “wall system?” Monitored fencing? So they think monitored fences in strategic locations, _like we currently have_, is a necessary component of border security!? What an amazing poll! So we already have exactly what they’re asking for, why do we need $5B? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/140 "2019-01-08T21:05:49Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Where do you want these fences? What’s wrong with the fences we have already? What will get us the most bang for our buck? What is the targeted purpose of each proposed stretch of new fence? Present a plan and we’ll discuss the merits. So far all we have is 2000 miles of “steel slats”. Based on this post, is it a safe guess that you disagree with Pelosi’s “a wall is an immorality” statement? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495.md?page=8)