# The five billion dollar wall **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 21, 2018, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495 "2018-12-21T15:50:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/141 "2019-01-08T21:08:07Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Excellent, I’m glad we agree. Go tell Nancy. Does Trump have any kind of plan for the construction, maintenance and monitoring? So far it’s just “wall!” from him, as best I can tell. Could you please ask him about it, next you meet? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/142 "2019-01-08T21:08:23Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Based on this post, is it a safe guess that you disagree with Pelosi’s “a wall is an immorality” statement? Based on this post, is it a safe guess that you don’t know the difference between a 2000 mile wall and a few hundred miles of fence? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/143 "2019-01-08T21:08:32Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’ve already provided the former Border Patrol chief’s interview in which he supported the idea. I got the complaint that “He doesn’t actually have much experience in, you know, border security” (which makes all the uninformed opinions on the subject by non-BP-agent Dopers rather rich, don’t you think?), but lucky for us, the Border Patrol agents have chimed in on the matter: [Border Patrol agents overwhelmingly support Trump’s wall in new survey](https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/apr/2/border-patrol-agents-back-trump-wall-survey-finds/). Shall we leave it up to the experts then? Did you read your link? > [@](#): > > In a survey conducted by the National Border Patrol Council, the agents’ union, they overwhelmingly supported adding a “wall system” **in strategic locations,** embracing President Trump’s argument that it will boost their ability to nab or deter would-be illegal immigrants. That’s way different than 2,000 miles of wall. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/144 "2019-01-08T21:11:09Z")
Where are you guys getting “2000 miles” from? President Trump is asking for $5B. I think we’d all agree that’s not going to build “2000 miles” of wall, right? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/145 "2019-01-08T21:14:45Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Where are you guys getting “2000 miles” from? President Trump is asking for $5B. I think we’d all agree that’s not going to build “2000 miles” of wall, right? From the Howling Yam himself. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/146 "2019-01-08T21:20:14Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Where are you guys getting “2000 miles” from? President Trump is asking for $5B. I think we’d all agree that’s not going to build “2000 miles” of wall, right? Where is he going to build $5B of wall? What’s the plan? Can you link to it? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/147 "2019-01-08T21:21:32Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Where are you guys getting “2000 miles” from? President Trump is asking for $5B. I think we’d all agree that’s not going to build “2000 miles” of wall, right? We all agree? Until Trump tells us exactly what he plans on doing with the $5B, we have no fucking idea _what_ he thinks…and “…a wall or a fence, whatever you want to call it” just isn’t going to fly, because if we think that a wall and a fence are synonymous and that the money will be spent on fixing the fencing that is there, they we _deserve_ to be played for the suckers y’all think you are dealing with. No blank check. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/148 "2019-01-08T21:21:55Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > From the Howling Yam himself. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/149 "2019-01-08T21:28:15Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Cite? [GOP platform.](https://prod-cdn-static.gop.com/static/home/data/platform.pdf) (PDF) pg 33 > [@](#): > > That is why we support building a wall along > our southern border and protecting all ports of > entry. The border wall must cover the entirety > of the southern border and must be sufficient to > stop both vehicular and pedestrian traffic. Along with numerous rantings at rallies. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/150 "2019-01-08T21:56:50Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > [GOP platform.](https://prod-cdn-static.gop.com/static/home/data/platform.pdf) (PDF) > pg 33 Huh, I didn’t think they were dumb enough to actually put it in _writing_. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/151 "2019-01-08T22:01:51Z")
No matter what actually happens, Trump will claim victory, and the Republican base will believe him. It could be fencing, with 2 pounds of concrete at one spot and he’ll claim victory. It could be he gets .5% of the total cost of the wall and he’ll claim victory. It could be a bedsheets with “Wal” written on it, and he’ll claim victory. And the base will believe him. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/152 "2019-01-08T22:14:34Z")
Just read a fascinating bit on Twitter > [@](#): > > “Fully 41% of the border - about 620 miles - is within the TX congressional district of one person: Rep. Will Hurd. > Who doesn’t want a wall.” ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/153 "2019-01-08T22:19:39Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Huh, I didn’t think they were dumb enough to actually put it in _writing_. Oh yeah, and at the same time try to claim: “What long wall? That’s just crazy talk!” Any red hatted moron at a Trump rally envisioned a pink floyd wall stretching from sea to shining gulf. And at one point it got 10 feet higher, and orange lie boy lied about Mexico funding the atrocity. They ate that shit up, and now try to deny it. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/154 "2019-01-08T23:09:34Z")
I keep hearing that illegal immigration, in the form of people sneaking across the border, is a problem. I need more than that. The Rs told us over and over and over that cutting taxes improves the economy, and though the evidence does not support their claim, they keep repeating it. They claim to be for fiscal responsibility while being the party that consistently increases the red ink. They claim to be morally superior and repeatedly prove that they are not. They are the party of repeat the lie repeatedly until people believe it because that is all the people hear, over and over again. So, I ask again, is there an actual serious problem that a wall would address? Because, based on their history of record bullshit, I have real doubts about the validity of that narrative. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2019, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/155 "2019-01-09T00:59:15Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > I keep hearing that illegal immigration, in the form of people sneaking across the border, is a problem. I need more than that. … I told you previously > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I suppose that depends on how you define “actual”. … Do you think people ignoring our immigration laws and entering the country without authorization or vetting is a problem? I do, but given your political persuasion, perhaps you don’t see that as a problem? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2019, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/156 "2019-01-09T01:11:05Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Do you think people ignoring our immigration laws and entering the country without authorization or vetting is a problem? I do, but given your political persuasion, perhaps you don’t see that as a problem? How big a problem kinda depends on the numbers involved, doesn’t it? If three Mexicans a day enter the U.S. without authorization by crossing our southern border on foot, that’s a thousand a year. Nobody will even notice them. If 3000 Mexicans a day do that, that’s a million a year, and yeah, that would be a bit of a problem. However, all evidence is that the number of undocumented persons living in the U.S. has steadily _declined_ over the past decade. The flow of unauthorized immigrants into the U.S. is _negative_. I’m gonna say, that’s the _antithesis_ of a problem. Moreover, the typical undocumented person is someone who entered the U.S. legally but overstayed his/her visa, rather than someone who crossed the border on foot in the desert somewhere. More wall wouldn’t help with that anyway. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2019, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/157 "2019-01-09T01:15:24Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Oh yeah, and at the same time try to claim: “What long wall? That’s just crazy talk!” > Any red hatted moron at a Trump rally envisioned a pink floyd wall stretching from sea to shining gulf. And at one point it got 10 feet higher, and orange lie boy lied about Mexico funding the atrocity. They ate that shit up, and now try to deny it. I’m not “trying to deny it”, but I don’t think it’s the topic of the current thread (titled “The five billion dollar wall”) or the source of the shutdown impasse. President Trump has requested $5B in this budget to “build primary wall or physical barriers in the areas of greatest need” (from [a presentation the White House sent to congress four days ago](https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/president-trump-sends-letter-border-security/)). That’s not “a 2000 mile wall” like some here are pretending. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2019, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/158 "2019-01-09T01:15:31Z")
If illegal immigration caused problems Trump wouldn’t be telling lies about leprosy and smallpox and thousands of terrorists being stopped at the border. The right’s claims that a wall is necessary are not fact-based, and can be dismissed. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2019, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/159 "2019-01-09T01:21:19Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Do you think people ignoring our immigration laws and entering the country without authorization or vetting is a problem? I do, but given your political persuasion, perhaps you don’t see that as a problem? Well, being as they are coming here to work, and mow our lawns and pick our strawberries and clean our houses- they dont _seem_ to be a problem. I suppose a terrorist could sneak in, but why not just fly in with a visa, like they did last time? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2019, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495/160 "2019-01-09T01:34:55Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m not “trying to deny it”, but I don’t think it’s the topic of the current thread (titled “The five billion dollar wall”) or the source of the shutdown impasse. President Trump has requested $5B in this budget to “build primary wall or physical barriers in the areas of greatest need” (from [a presentation the White House sent to congress four days ago](https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/president-trump-sends-letter-border-security/)). That’s not “a 2000 mile wall” like some here are pretending. What I understood was that that 5 billion is just the first payment, > **[The Wall: The real costs of a barrier between the United States and Mexico |...](https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-wall-the-real-costs-of-a-barrier-between-the-united-states-and-mexico/)** > > In her Brookings Essay, "The Wall," Brookings Senior Fellow Vanda Felbab-Brown explains the true costs of building a barrier on the U.S.-Mexico border. > [@](#): > > Trump claimed that the wall would cost only $12 billion, a Department of Homeland Security (DHS) internal report in February put the cost at $21.6 billion, but that may be a major underestimate. > [@](#): > > \*The above figures show the upper estimate when a range was suggested. **Costs do not include annual maintenance.** As always, the number of lies that Trump uses toward his goal are bottomless. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-five-billion-dollar-wall/826495.md?page=9)