# The Flash S02E14: Escape from Earth-2 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 17, 2016, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e14-escape-from-earth-2/746328 "2016-02-17T12:16:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e14-escape-from-earth-2/746328/21 "2016-02-19T14:28:04Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Yeah–that’s my thought too. And Zoom is the Earth-1 Garrick who they said was adopted and named “Hunter Zolomon”.\* How Zoom and Fake-Jay appear at the same time is the one point I’m stuck on (presumably Barry is fast enough to see if Zoom is doing the “Changing clothes at super speed” bit) > > If this theory is true though, one bit becomes incredibly stupid: Once Iron Mask spelled out “J A Y”, the smart thing to do would have been to simply point at himself. No need for complicated spelling grids. > > And in the 6(?) months that Jesse and Iron Mask have been locked up, Iron Mask hasn’t tried _anything_ but that 5x5 grid that Jesse clearly didn’t get? What–she’s supposed to figure it out on the 301st repetition? Charades would probably have been faster than that 5x5 grid. > > I have a pretty high tolerance for Silver Age silliness: I didn’t blink when Captain Cold froze laser beams a while back, but this one just annoyed me. Seeing how the other prisoner looked, and guessing that it is probably some character we’ve seen, I had guessed that it could somehow be Jay before he started spelling out anything. But I will be kinda annoyed if now two seasons in a row the main characters have a trusted mentor who turns out to be a bad guy impersonating a good guy. And I agree that if it is indeed Jay Garrick behind the mask, it would have been obvious to then point at himself. Barry could have still misinterpreted it and babbled on about how Jay Garrick is on Earth 1 before Zoom comes in, but it would have been something. And I agree with epbrown01, that if Harry’s daughter is indeed so smart, that she would have tried communicating or figuring out some sort of system of communicating before. If nothing else, he could have started tapping out one tap for every letter of the alphabet. It would have been long and tedious, especially if he spelled anything with a W or Y, but it’s not like they have anything else to do. But she was much more gracious than I would have been to Barry, considering how he gets captured by Zoom and talks about how they’re gonna get her out of there. Iris was also nicer than I would have been, since her father was killed because our Barry was with Iris. The show is good enough and fun enough for me to not be bothered too much when the characters act stupidly, but it would also be nice if they acted stupid a little bit less. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e14-escape-from-earth-2/746328/22 "2016-02-19T14:59:02Z")
The man in the iron mask undoubtedly had more to say than just “J-A-Y”, but Barry being Barry immediately jumped to the conclusion that he was asking _about_ Jay Garrick rather trying to explain that he _was_ Jay Garrick. Before mask-guy could tap out anything further, Zoom ran in forestalling any further attempts at communication. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e14-escape-from-earth-2/746328/23 "2016-02-19T15:49:10Z")
> [@Terminus\_Est](#): > > The man in the iron mask undoubtedly had more to say than just “J-A-Y”, but Barry being Barry immediately jumped to the conclusion that he was asking _about_ Jay Garrick rather trying to explain that he _was_ Jay Garrick. Before mask-guy could tap out anything further, Zoom ran in forestalling any further attempts at communication. Of course he had more to say after “JAY”, but while Barry was babbling, he could have been shaking his head and pointing to himself if he is Jay. But it is still possible that the man in the mask is someone else, and he was actually starting to spell out “JAY GARRICK IS ZOOM” or something else entirely but just got interrupted by Barry and then by Zoom coming back. But Harry’s daughter and the man in the mask were trapped there for months before Barry got there. And apparently the man in the mask had been tapping thing pretty constantly although she couldn’t figure out the pattern. It’s just a bit annoying that even though she’s supposed to be smart, they couldn’t figure out any way to communicate over that time, even though they have absolutely nothing else to do. It would have made more sense if the two couldn’t communicate because they couldn’t see each other, or couldn’t hear each other, or they tried communicating a few times and each time Zoom came in and seriously hurt one or both of them. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2016, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e14-escape-from-earth-2/746328/24 "2016-02-20T14:18:10Z")
> [@carlb](#): > > Because they’ll really need to up the drama/angst at some point, I’m predicting that Zoom is Earth-2’s Henry Allen. John Wesley Shipp’s got a stocky build like Zoom’s, doesn’t he? That’s what I’ve been thinking. Zoom’s costume even has the same wrinkles around the eyes. I really liked that while Earth-2’s Star Labs has proximity alerts and all, Earth-1’s just continues with its open door policy. Do they even have a lock? (And how did Geomancer figure out where they were, anyway?) ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2016, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e14-escape-from-earth-2/746328/25 "2016-02-20T15:15:17Z")
I’m going to guess that the man who’s been posing as Jay Garrick is actually Everyman2, the shape-shifter. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2016, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e14-escape-from-earth-2/746328/26 "2016-02-20T15:27:16Z")
Wells says his daughter is smart. That may just be parental pride talking. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2016, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e14-escape-from-earth-2/746328/27 "2016-02-20T17:41:05Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > Wells says his daughter is smart. That may just be parental pride talking. Did we ever see Wells say that, or just Barry _saying_ that Wells said that? And regarding Barry escaping the cell, why does the solution to this _and every other challenge he has faced_ boil down to “believe in yourself and go faster” ? ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2016, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e14-escape-from-earth-2/746328/28 "2016-02-20T17:52:38Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Did we ever see Wells say that, or just Barry _saying_ that Wells said that? > And regarding Barry escaping the cell, why does the solution to this _and every other challenge he has faced_ boil down to “believe in yourself and go faster” ? Reminds me of a discussion of the work of A. E. Van Vogt, which said something like “each chapter ends with the superpowered hero realizing that he was somewhat more powerful than he had previously believed.” ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2016, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e14-escape-from-earth-2/746328/29 "2016-02-20T18:11:16Z")
I always figured that Zoom was actually the alternate-universe Flash. Not Jay, but _Barry_. He’s actually just the right height presuming he has thicker-soled shoes, and his muscles look more wirey than bulging. That seems to be out of the realm of possibilities now. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2016, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e14-escape-from-earth-2/746328/30 "2016-02-20T21:04:38Z")
When I was watching this episode with my kids, the discussion came up that he has actually figured out how to phase through things as the emergency, last-minute solution the problem several times now. He should maybe practice that. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e14-escape-from-earth-2/746328/31 "2016-02-21T00:15:56Z")
Maybe mask guy is Jay, and “Jay” is Rival but had some sort of interaction with Zoom leaving him thinking he’s Jay, sort of like what once happened with Thawne in Wally’s Flash series (incidentally that was the story that got me started as a regular Flash reader at the time) > **[Rival](https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Rival)** > > The Rival is Edward Clariss, a professor at the university attended by the Golden Age Flash, Jay Garrick. He believed he had recreated the formula that gave Garrick his speed, and would become the arch-nemesis of the first Flash. The Rival was... Velocity 9 is even in there as how Rival gets speed, just as we’ve seen with the supposed Jay on the show. Hunter Zoloman being E1 Jay is just weird, he’s Wally’s Zoom as opposed to Thawne being Barry’s. No connection to Jay (with Rival sort of being the equivalent for him). Pfft adaption writers, whatcha gonna do… I really hope they never tackle Cobalt Blue, he’d probably wind up being Sisko’s 2nd cousin twice removed or something. For any of these “Jays” being this Zoom, then there’ve got to be some time travel shenanigans going on. Which is not out of bounds for Flash stories, but mixed with the E2 stuff just seems it would overly complicate matters beyond what they’re usually willing to do with TV shows. ---
**Author:** ![BrianJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/54ee81/32.png) [@BrianJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrianJ)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e14-escape-from-earth-2/746328/32 "2016-02-21T18:00:07Z")
Did anyone else wonder why, when Caitlin2/KIller Frost had Zoom frozen, someone didn’t fill him full of bullets? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e14-escape-from-earth-2/746328/33 "2016-02-21T21:00:26Z")
> [@BrianJ](#): > > Did anyone else wonder why, when Caitlin2/KIller Frost had Zoom frozen, someone didn’t fill him full of bullets? They’re trying to _stop_ him, not _kill_ him. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e14-escape-from-earth-2/746328/34 "2016-02-21T23:52:16Z")
> [@BrianJ](#): > > Did anyone else wonder why, when Caitlin2/KIller Frost had Zoom frozen, someone didn’t fill him full of bullets? I’m guessing the extreme cold would have shattered the bullets, sending shrapnel all over the place. Seems like if it wouldn’t, Killer Frost would have been telling them to shoot. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2016, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e14-escape-from-earth-2/746328/35 "2016-02-22T11:55:36Z")
> [@BrianJ](#): > > Did anyone else wonder why, when Caitlin2/KIller Frost had Zoom frozen, someone didn’t fill him full of bullets? Or even take off his mask… ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2016, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e14-escape-from-earth-2/746328/36 "2016-02-22T14:13:01Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > I really hope they never tackle Cobalt Blue, he’d probably wind up being Sisko’s 2nd cousin twice removed or something. I hope they never deal with Cobalt Blue again, in the comics, on TV or in any other media. Barry’s long-lost twin, kidnapped at birth by con-artists and now intent on doing eeevil because he’s bitter that Barry wasn’t the one kidnapped? It’s like Waid (who’s run on the Flash was otherwise pretty good–despite his hatred of the Rogues) saw a bunch of Gilbert and Sullivan shows while reading Dumas’s “The Corsican Brothers”. Just a _bad_ concept all around. Now let us never speak Cobalt Blue’s name again. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e14-escape-from-earth-2/746328/37 "2016-02-23T23:05:42Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Now let us never speak Cobalt Blue’s name again. 😛 It shall remain forever an unfinished topic. Cobalt blueballs, as it were. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e14-escape-from-earth-2/746328.md?page=1)