# The Flash S02E15: King Shark **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 24, 2016, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e15-king-shark/746959 "2016-02-24T08:02:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2016, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e15-king-shark/746959/1 "2016-02-24T08:02:09Z")
ARGUS called the shark “Bruce”, the same name given to the mechanical shark used in _Jaws_. I was expecting this episode to be a return to light-hearted Silver Age hijinks. What could be sillier than a giant talking armed shark wearing pants? But Jay Garrick had to go and get himself killed last week, so we had to deal with all the drama that entailed. Luring King Shark with a Flash dummy on a buoy was about a silly as it got. I did like Caitlin freaking out Cisco by pretending she was Killer Frost. For a moment there, I too thought she was Killer Frost. We’ve finally seen Zoom unmasked! And he’s Jay Garrick! But he’s different than the Jay Garrick we’ve gotten to know. Plus who’s the man in the iron mask? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2016, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e15-king-shark/746959/2 "2016-02-24T13:32:10Z")
My current theory: Jay Garrick (dead)=Jay E2 Jay Garrick (Iron Mask)=Jay E1 (aka Hunter Zolomon) (Note=Iron Mask/Dead Jay may be the other way round) Jay Garrick (Zoom)=Jay E3 This episode felt like filler to me. A Monster-Du-Jour and someone dropped a conflict ball in the middle of the action which made everyone act like out-of-character dicks but they all hugged and made up in the end.\* And Well’s “Good lord! Keep everything that that happened on Earth Two super-secret because it’ll make everyone stress more” bit was just idiotic and I wanted someone to call him on it. I’m really hoping this leads to [del]Barry[/del]…actually Cisco, since he’s fiddling with the goggles to get the vibrational pattern right…that Barry just needs to hop on the cosmic treadmill and attune his vibrations back to E2 and go there. I really want to see that damned treadmill put to use. And no Flash for a month? What is _wrong_ with these people? I must have my Flash-Fix! 😉 \*Part of the problem is that I just saw Legends of Tomorrow ep 4, which had the same exact conflict-ball plot: all of a sudden, characters who, last episode, were getting along just fine are now at each other’s throats because reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2016, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e15-king-shark/746959/3 "2016-02-24T14:10:59Z")
Assuming the iron mask person is male, the only man I can recall who hasn’t had an Earth-2 counterpart revealed yet is Eddie Thawne. He’s the ancestor of this Earth’s Reverse Flash and sacrificed himself in Season 1 to prevent RF from existing. Maybe Iron Mask guy is Earth-2’s Eddie Thawne, and Xoom is keeping him alive to ensure Earth-2’s RF will exist. Or maybe it’s Earth-1’s Eddie Thawne. He got sucked through the wormhole to Earth-2 after he shot himself, and may have been discovered by Xoom and nursed back to health. Plus, Xoom’s reaction to finding himself looking like Jay Garrick may mean he’s RF trading bodies again. I’M MY OWN GRANDPA! blublublublublu ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2016, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e15-king-shark/746959/4 "2016-02-24T14:36:39Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Assuming the iron mask person is male, the only man I can recall who hasn’t had an Earth-2 counterpart revealed yet is Eddie Thawne. Well, there’s the Turtle, right? (What good is the ability to slow down time if you’re already locked in a prison cell?) ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2016, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e15-king-shark/746959/5 "2016-02-24T16:05:37Z")
Sigh. I was sure Zoom was Wally2. Oh, well. Now I think that the dead Jay is Everyman2, and the Man in the Iron Mask is Wally2. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2016, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e15-king-shark/746959/6 "2016-02-24T18:31:53Z")
Well, there goes my Henry Allen-theory. I hope they manage to make some sense of the three Jay Garricks around (well, no longer in one case). Also, the ARGUS thing, is that something you need to watch Arrow for to understand? And no matter the eventual payoff, the whole Wally West drama is dragging the whole show down; I just can’t bring myself to care. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2016, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e15-king-shark/746959/7 "2016-02-24T23:45:27Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > My current theory: > > Jay Garrick (dead)=Jay E2 > Jay Garrick (Iron Mask)=Jay E1 (aka Hunter Zolomon) (Note=Iron Mask/Dead Jay may be the other way round) > Jay Garrick (Zoom)=Jay E3 According to Jesse, Iron Mask has been incarcerated almost as long as her, while we previously saw Hunter Zolomon on Earth-1. Maybe there are two Hunter Zolomons, like there are two Jay Garricks? > [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > Also, the ARGUS thing, is that something you need to watch Arrow for to understand?. All you really need to know is that ARGUS is a super-secret quasi-military governmental organization that Oliver Queen has had dealings with. They recently had a major shake-up of the top leadership and now we’ve learned that Diggle’s wife Lyla is director. Interesting that they’d inform us of this minor character development on _The Flash_ rather than on _Arrow_. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e15-king-shark/746959/8 "2016-02-25T15:20:23Z")
> [@Terminus\_Est](#): > > According to Jesse, Iron Mask has been incarcerated almost as long as her, while we previously saw Hunter Zolomon on Earth-1. Maybe there are two Hunter Zolomons, like there are two Jay Garricks? It’s Jay Garricks all the way down. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e15-king-shark/746959/9 "2016-02-25T16:30:52Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > It’s Jay Garricks all the way down. You’re a Jay Garrick! And you’re a Jay Garrick! And you’re a Jay Garrick! Everyone’s a Jay Garrick!!! ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e15-king-shark/746959/10 "2016-02-25T16:33:17Z")
I’m Jay Garrick, and so is my wife. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e15-king-shark/746959/11 "2016-02-25T16:48:55Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > It’s Jay Garricks all the way down. Everybody’s Kang the Conqueror! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImvVpBBiOYU&feature=youtu.be&a](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImvVpBBiOYU&feature=youtu.be&a) ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e15-king-shark/746959/12 "2016-02-25T16:58:43Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > I’m Jay Garrick, and so is my wife. I’m not just the president of Jay Garrick, I’m also a client. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e15-king-shark/746959/13 "2016-02-25T17:00:36Z")
The thing I wonder about is Zoom’s reaction to Jay’s death. He wasn’t smug like some villain who just defeated a good guy. He was acting like he just discovered the dead body, instead of someone who just killed him. But he is worried that it will disrupt his plans. I don’t know enough about the comic book stuff to even guess what is going on. Like others I’m guessing it is another Jay behind the iron mask, although I don’t know how that would work. Either an Earth 3 or time travel I’d guess. > [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Assuming the iron mask person is male, the only man I can recall who hasn’t had an Earth-2 counterpart revealed yet is Eddie Thawne. He’s the ancestor of this Earth’s Reverse Flash and sacrificed himself in Season 1 to prevent RF from existing. Maybe Iron Mask guy is Earth-2’s Eddie Thawne, and Xoom is keeping him alive to ensure Earth-2’s RF will exist. > > Or maybe it’s Earth-1’s Eddie Thawne. He got sucked through the wormhole to Earth-2 after he shot himself, and may have been discovered by Xoom and nursed back to health. Plus, Xoom’s reaction to finding himself looking like Jay Garrick may mean he’s RF trading bodies again. I’M MY OWN GRANDPA! blublublublublu I would have thought Eddie Thawne would have showed up on Earth 2 somewhere in the police station, except the actor is busy with the show Quantico. I’m guessing it won’t be him behind the iron mask. But all the stuff with Eobard Thawne does show that time travel is possible. It’s possible one of the Jays is from the past or future, but I don’t know why, or what that would mean with one dead. ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e15-king-shark/746959/14 "2016-02-25T17:11:05Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > I’m Jay Garrick, and so is my wife. In that case, who’s Spartacus? ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e15-king-shark/746959/15 "2016-02-25T17:57:16Z")
> [@Dendarii\_Dame](#): > > In that case, who’s Spartacus? Me am not Bizarro Sparticus! ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e15-king-shark/746959/16 "2016-02-25T20:00:05Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > The thing I wonder about is Zoom’s reaction to Jay’s death. He wasn’t smug like some villain who just defeated a good guy. He was acting like he just discovered the dead body, instead of someone who just killed him. But he is worried that it will disrupt his plans. > > I don’t know enough about the comic book stuff to even guess what is going on. Like others I’m guessing it is another Jay behind the iron mask, although I don’t know how that would work. Either an Earth 3 or time travel I’d guess. So maybe Zoom is future Jay, after being corrupted by Velocity-37? And the “I killed by past self” shockwae hasn’t hit him yet. > [@](#): > > I would have thought Eddie Thawne would have showed up on Earth 2 somewhere in the police station, except the actor is busy with the show Quantico. I’m guessing it won’t be him behind the iron mask. Pretty sure Eddie was on Barry-2’s phone. Presumably they would’ve noticed if he was missing. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e15-king-shark/746959/17 "2016-02-25T20:49:47Z")
One thing I’ve noticed in the DC/TV Universe- nobody needs to urinate, defecate, or eat (aside from the occasional Big Belly Burger). In Arrow, Oliver locked people up in cells on that island, with no guards to take care of them. In Flash, we’ve seen the Flashgang locking people up in Star Labs in those little cells, and they don’t seem to have access to toilets. And Zoom, of course, has The Man in the Iron Mask locked up in that little cage- heck, that guy can’t speak through that mask, so there’s no way he’d be able to eat… which is a good thing, 'cause there’s no toilet there, either. ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e15-king-shark/746959/18 "2016-02-25T23:03:34Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > But all the stuff with Eobard Thawne does show that time travel is possible. It’s possible one of the Jays is from the past or future, but I don’t know why, or what that would mean with one dead. Jay Garrick is the man in the mask, becomes bitter that Barry doesn’t come back and save him, becomes Zoom because of that, and goes back in time and kidnaps himself. It’s the only possible answer. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2016, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e15-king-shark/746959/19 "2016-02-26T03:34:36Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > One thing I’ve noticed in the DC/TV Universe- nobody needs to urinate, defecate, or eat (aside from the occasional Big Belly Burger). > > In Arrow, Oliver locked people up in cells on that island, with no guards to take care of them. In Flash, we’ve seen the Flashgang locking people up in Star Labs in those little cells, and they don’t seem to have access to toilets. And Zoom, of course, has The Man in the Iron Mask locked up in that little cage- heck, that guy can’t speak through that mask, so there’s no way he’d be able to eat… which is a good thing, 'cause there’s no toilet there, either. Team Arrow has Big Belly Burgers, which seemed to be a privately-owned shop run by Diggle’s sister-in-law at first, and part of a nationwide chain later. Team Flash, though, has BBBs, practically lives at Jitters, and are regularly seen eating all sorts of restaurants or bringing home takeout (they just had a ton of Chinese food when Wally was over). The lock-up on Arrow was maintained by Argus - they fed and guarded the prisoners. It was mentioned but we never saw much of it. We’ve seen Team Flash feeding the prisoners in Star Labs. True, we don’t see a toilet or basin, but it’s Star Labs - there’s likely some high tech solution that comes out of the floor or wall. Given that they keep metahumans, it’s probably a good idea to not have permanent access to water or drains. ---
**Author:** ![BrianJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/54ee81/32.png) [@BrianJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrianJ)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2016, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e15-king-shark/746959/20 "2016-02-27T03:22:53Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > My current theory: > > Jay Garrick (dead)=Jay E2 > Jay Garrick (Iron Mask)=Jay E1 (aka Hunter Zolomon) (Note=Iron Mask/Dead Jay may be the other way round) > Jay Garrick (Zoom)=Jay E3 I’m thinking: Jay Garrick (dead)=Hunter Zolomon E2 Jay Garrick (Iron Mask)= Real Jay Garrick/Flash from E2 (not the actor playing Zoom/Jay) Jay Garrick (Zoom)=Zolomon E3/Time travelling Zolomon E2? Hunter Zolomon E1 = some shmoe? The guy Jay pointed out to Caitlin? If Iron Mask is the same actor, that actor’s getting lots of roles! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e15-king-shark/746959.md?page=2)