# The Flash S02E23: The Race of His Life **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 25, 2016, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e23-the-race-of-his-life/755638 "2016-05-25T08:55:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e23-the-race-of-his-life/755638/41 "2016-05-27T01:39:32Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > I doubt this will effect Arrow too much, outside of the eventual crossover episode. Although maybe this will be the return of Snart? I’d love to see them do Citizen Cold. It would also give Iris and Wally something different to do. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e23-the-race-of-his-life/755638/42 "2016-05-27T10:55:14Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > I like the ideas you guys are throwing out, but I think you’re all waaaaaaaay overestimating the TV show’s budget. I’d prefer the “Kryptonian” idea or the " Firestorm can be your Cyborg, Black/White Canary as Wonder Woman, and Hourman as Aquaman? " idea, but I suspect what we’re gonna get is simply a crapsack world. Joe will be a crooked cop (or a bum, or a con-man), Cisco will be a punk, Caitlyn will still be super-boring (because that’s a constant), we’ll see shanty towns, a lot of muggings…that sort of thing. There will be a lot of whining from Barry about “But what about HOPE? Isn’t there any more HOPE?” “Clarence! What have I DONE?!” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e23-the-race-of-his-life/755638/43 "2016-05-27T19:32:05Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > Except they don’t have Aquaman, Wonder Woman, Cyborg or Batman available to use. Supergirl could fill in for Superman, and Green Arrow could do the Batman role, but I don’t know who they could use for Aquaman or Wonder Woman or Cyborg. What makes the Aquaman and Wonder Woman roles hard to fill is, each one is leading an entire nation where the military is packing comic-book gear; that’s not how it usually goes in the comics, where they each typically play the lone emissary from that tucked-away realm or whatever – but it’s what makes the plot _go_ in Flashpoint. But Cyborg? He’s just a guy who reports directly to the gent in the White House, as an informational powerhouse with access to the Pentagon’s best tech. Which makes him a major player – recruiting other supers, engaging in expositionary dialogue, knowing things that they don’t but the government does, and so on – but pretty much _anyone_ could plausibly fill that role; we don’t need to introduce the undersea kingdom of Atlantis, we don’t need an island of Amazon warriors; we simply declare that the President has a right-hand man in this all-new all-different timeline. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e23-the-race-of-his-life/755638/44 "2016-05-27T20:57:30Z")
So Zoom is running around the magnavox clockwise and Barry is running after him trying to catch him? Why doesn’t Barry just turn around, run counterclockwise and clothesline him? ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e23-the-race-of-his-life/755638/45 "2016-05-27T23:26:01Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > So Zoom is running around the magnavox clockwise and Barry is running after him trying to catch him? Why doesn’t Barry just turn around, run counterclockwise and clothesline him? We’re talking about the same show where, at the beginning of the previous episode, they said that Zoom can open rifts between Earth-2 and Earth-1 at will – and then, later in the SAME EPISODE, these same people think it’s a GREAT idea to get rid of Zoom by sending him through a rift to Earth-2. (Not to mention, the same show where they tracked a cold gun by looking for its “ultraviolet cold signature.”) ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e23-the-race-of-his-life/755638/46 "2016-05-28T03:48:53Z")
> [@tracer](#): > > (Not to mention, the same show where they tracked a cold gun by looking for its “ultraviolet cold signature.”) Was that when Captain Cold had Cisco and his brother? I thought Cisco had installed a tracking chip while he was making improvements to the cold gun. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/898d66/32.png) [@Johnny\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Q)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e23-the-race-of-his-life/755638/47 "2016-05-28T06:48:12Z")
I can see Cold popping back into existence and knowing something is wrong because he was pretty sure he was dead a minute ago. In fact if they go for the crossover I can see various people remembering the last timeline. E.g. Oliver through the tattoo Constantine gave him, Snart through dying outside of time, etc. There’s plenty of room to play around with it if they want to go there. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e23-the-race-of-his-life/755638/48 "2016-05-28T11:43:41Z")
> [@Johnny\_Q](#): > > I can see Cold popping back into existence and knowing something is wrong because he was pretty sure he was dead a minute ago. In fact if they go for the crossover I can see various people remembering the last timeline. You’d think Cisco would know, right? I mean, isn’t that his whole thing? ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e23-the-race-of-his-life/755638/49 "2016-05-28T20:24:10Z")
> [@Johnny\_Q](#): > > Obvious observation: The Flash that stopped Barry from saving his mom the first time is the one who saved her and had to go back to fix what he fucked up. This would show an immense amount of foresight and planning ahead on the part of the writers. I would love it to be true. But some of the stupidity they do argues against it. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2016, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e23-the-race-of-his-life/755638/50 "2016-05-29T01:00:57Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > And seriously? A grown man is going to screw up the entire universe because he’s hurt and wants his mommy? Hell, I would have rooted for Zoom if I knew he was that pathetic. Didn’t Reverse Flash mess things up by killing Barry’s mother to begin with? Barry wasn’t suppose to be raised by Joe and Iris wasn’t supposed to be a foster sister to him. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2016, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e23-the-race-of-his-life/755638/51 "2016-05-29T02:30:16Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > and Iris wasn’t supposed to be a foster sister to him. Speaking of which, I renew my ew. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2016, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e23-the-race-of-his-life/755638/52 "2016-05-29T03:22:37Z")
> [@Lok](#): > > This would show an immense amount of foresight and planning ahead on the part of the writers. I would love it to be true. But some of the stupidity they do argues against it. There’s evidence that they have already mapped out the overall plot for the entire season even before they begin writing. Teddy Sears, speaking on [Kevin Smith’s videocast](https://youtu.be/TqXZWZDnbEo), said that when they were casting him to do Jay Garrick, the producers also considered whether he could also do evil psychotic Zoom. Jay was always intended to be Hunter Zolomon in disguise and not just something they made up in mid-season. “Jay” showing Caitlin his Earth-1 doppelganger should have been extremely strong hint to those familiar with the Flash mythos as to where the season was going. While the exact details for each episode may only be written from week to week, there is an actual overarching plan for the season. It wouldn’t surprise me if there is a multi-season plan as well, as when they literally threw in Jay Garrick’s helmet at the end of season one and when they brought back Eobard Thawne in the middle of season two. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2016, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e23-the-race-of-his-life/755638/53 "2016-05-29T12:23:43Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Didn’t Reverse Flash mess things up by killing Barry’s mother to begin with? Barry wasn’t suppose to be raised by Joe and Iris wasn’t supposed to be a foster sister to him. Yeah. When we saw glimpses of the future (via Gideon) with newpaper bylines reading “Iris West-Allen” I figured we were seeing the version of reality in which Barry’s mother was not killed, and Iris was just a girl he knew from school, not the girl he was raised with from the age of 11. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e23-the-race-of-his-life/755638/54 "2016-05-30T01:28:15Z")
> [@Terminus\_Est](#): > > There’s evidence that they have already mapped out the overall plot for the entire season even before they begin writing. Teddy Sears, speaking on [Kevin Smith’s videocast](https://youtu.be/TqXZWZDnbEo), said that when they were casting him to do Jay Garrick, the producers also considered whether he could also do evil psychotic Zoom. Jay was always intended to be Hunter Zolomon in disguise and not just something they made up in mid-season. “Jay” showing Caitlin his Earth-1 doppelganger should have been extremely strong hint to those familiar with the Flash mythos as to where the season was going. > > While the exact details for each episode may only be written from week to week, there is an actual overarching plan for the season. It wouldn’t surprise me if there is a multi-season plan as well, as when they literally threw in Jay Garrick’s helmet at the end of season one and when they brought back Eobard Thawne in the middle of season two. I certainly believe they plan things out for the entire season, with room for unexpected changes and such. That has been pretty standard since at least Buffy and is pretty much required if you really want a good, season long Big Bad. But this would be a multi-seasonal arc, from 1 into at least 3, and I have less faith that they are capable of doing that. Witness the mentions in this thread about the wonderful plan to get rid of Zoom by sending him to Earth 2? After he has shown the ability to travel between earths on his own power? WTF? That is lousy writing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flash-s02e23-the-race-of-his-life/755638.md?page=2)