# The Fleur de Lis **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 27, 2022, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fleur-de-lis/958518 "2022-01-27T19:37:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jim\_B](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jim_b/32/4338_2.png) [@Jim\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_B)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fleur-de-lis/958518/1 "2022-01-27T19:37:30Z")
The fleur de lis is an ancient symbol. Some say it represents the Holy Trinity. But a more likely explanation is that it represents the three theological virtues of faith hope and charity. (This would also explain why there are three on the old royal standard of France for the Trinity, which otherwise would be redundant.) Just like the heart represents love, the fleur de lis represents virtue. As I said, it was on the old royal standard of France, representing the House of Bourbon. And as such, it is a de facto symbol of the French and French culture too. (Note. [Image](https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-7va6f0fjxr/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/43524/84753/Fleur-De-Lis-Saints-1506198882__59262.1616259800.jpg?c=2) will not load.) šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![pjd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pjd/32/3009_2.png) [@pjd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pjd)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fleur-de-lis/958518/2 "2022-01-27T19:47:36Z")
What are you like ?! [![](https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-7va6f0fjxr/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/43524/84753/Fleur-De-Lis-Saints-1506198882__59262.1616259800.jpg) ](https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-7va6f0fjxr/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/43524/84753/Fleur-De-Lis-Saints-1506198882__59262.1616259800.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_B](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jim_b/32/4338_2.png) [@Jim\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_B)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fleur-de-lis/958518/3 "2022-01-27T19:54:59Z")
Thank you again šŸ™‚ . BTW, anyone else ever wonder about the fleur de lis? Iā€™ll bet you anything you were aware of the symbol, you just didnā€™t know its name šŸ˜‰ šŸ™‚ . ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fleur-de-lis/958518/4 "2022-01-27T20:07:02Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > Iā€™ll bet you anything you were aware of the symbol, you just didnā€™t know its name Youā€™d lose that bet fairly often. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fleur-de-lis/958518/5 "2022-01-27T20:34:14Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > Iā€™ll bet you anything you were aware of the symbol, you just didnā€™t know its name Why do you think the symbol of France _and_ of international Scouting would be obscure? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fleur-de-lis/958518/6 "2022-01-27T20:39:28Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@Jim\_B](#): > > > > Iā€™ll bet you anything you were aware of the symbol, you just didnā€™t know its name > > Why do you think the symbol of France _and_ of international Scouting would be obscure?   Not to mention Quebec! [![](https://www.mtlblog.com/media-library/a-quebec-flag-emoji-is-the-subject-of-a-new-motion.jpg?id=26878066&width=600&coordinates=285%2C0%2C285%2C0&height=600) ](https://www.mtlblog.com/media-library/a-quebec-flag-emoji-is-the-subject-of-a-new-motion.jpg?id=26878066&width=600&coordinates=285%2C0%2C285%2C0&height=600) ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fleur-de-lis/958518/7 "2022-01-27T20:39:47Z")
During my visit to New Orleans when I was in high school, I wondered why the Saints had plastered their logo all over the city. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fleur-de-lis/958518/8 "2022-01-27T21:06:12Z")
Donā€™t offer that bet in Montreal. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fleur-de-lis/958518/9 "2022-01-27T21:16:01Z")
It was originally a frog, but Clovis the Great claimed to have a dream where it was changed into a lily. (Or perhaps wanted something nicer than frogs). And thatā€™s why France has the rooster as itā€™s national animal symbol, and the word ā€œfrogā€ is never heard. šŸø ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fleur-de-lis/958518/10 "2022-01-27T21:38:44Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > Iā€™ll bet you anything you were aware of the symbol, you just didnā€™t know its name šŸ˜‰ šŸ™‚ . I know the symbol, the name, and the fact that is is modeled on the iris, a wildflower found across much of France. And I guess I am corrected, oh grandmother told me a misunderstanding. It is arguably a lily but many take it for an iris. They word Lys (lis) is lily. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2022, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fleur-de-lis/958518/11 "2022-01-28T00:29:29Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > And thatā€™s why France has the rooster as itā€™s national animal symbol, and the word ā€œfrogā€ is never heard. šŸø But frogsā€™ legs are very popular in France. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2022, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fleur-de-lis/958518/12 "2022-01-28T01:48:41Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > Iā€™ll bet you anything you were aware of the symbol, you just didnā€™t know its name This is the Dope, not Facebook. While we are frequently ignorant here, we are ignorant at a MUCH higher level than most other websites. ;-%\> (me winking, rolling my tongue, and having grown a goatee which fits under my N95 mask nicely) ---
**Author:** ![FrenchDunadan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frenchdunadan/32/5449_2.png) [@FrenchDunadan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FrenchDunadan)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2022, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fleur-de-lis/958518/13 "2022-01-28T13:12:56Z")
Clovis allegedly took the fleur de lys ( lily flower) as symbol after the victory of Tolbiac, where he outflanked an Alaman army by finding a ford, where lily where since th water was shallow there. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2022, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fleur-de-lis/958518/14 "2022-01-28T15:36:49Z")
There is a lot of folklore about Clovis I (AD 466-511), but according to [Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleur-de-lis) the earliest Frankish king to use the symbol was Louis VI (AD 1108-1137). Supposedly, the pagan king Childric used a toad (symbol of the Devil) but when Clovis converted to Christianity, he changed it to the Fleur de Lis. However, Clovis lived long before the development of heraldry, so the lore should be taken with a huge grain of salt. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2022, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fleur-de-lis/958518/15 "2022-01-28T15:38:18Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > Iā€™ll bet you anything you were aware of the symbol, you just didnā€™t know its name šŸ˜‰ šŸ™‚ . Heh. We like visiting New Orleans, so of course we are familiar with the Fleur de Lis. My gf has no tattoos (I have many) but she has considered getting a Fleur de Lis somewhere on her body. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2022, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fleur-de-lis/958518/16 "2022-01-28T15:39:30Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > she has considered getting a Fleur de Lis somewhere on her body I trust you are aware that it was traditionally a symbol of virginity? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2022, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fleur-de-lis/958518/17 "2022-01-28T15:49:45Z")
Three years of high school French, plus attending a Catholic grade school named for Joan of Arc, and knowing enough about the New Orleans Saints to know what their symbol is, and why itā€™s relevant. So, yes, I know the name ā€œfleur de lis.ā€ ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2022, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fleur-de-lis/958518/18 "2022-01-28T16:04:37Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > it was traditionally a symbol of virginity? I never said she wasnā€™t. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2022, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fleur-de-lis/958518/19 "2022-01-28T16:38:04Z")
[Lillibullero](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uDhRthVLBQQ) is an Irish tune (written by English composer Henry Purcell) that may mean ā€œThe Lily (our French alliesā€™ flag) is in sight,ā€ or that the prophecy of Catholic astronomer William Lilly will come true. ---
**Author:** ![UDS1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e47774/32.png) [@UDS1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS1)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2022, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fleur-de-lis/958518/20 "2022-01-31T01:05:06Z")
Nitpick: Not an Irish tune, and while the lyric refer to Ireland they were written by an Englishman and are an anti-Irish screed invoking racist stereotypes about the Irish. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fleur-de-lis/958518.md?page=2)