# The Florida and Michigan delegates **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 6, 2008, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-and-michigan-delegates/440350 "2008-03-06T18:17:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2008, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-and-michigan-delegates/440350/41 "2008-03-09T11:16:47Z")
DMark, do it like that, and I can promise you at least four times as many votes cast as there are people in Florida. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2008, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-and-michigan-delegates/440350/42 "2008-03-09T14:10:08Z")
2 easy ways to solve that problem. First, anyone caught perpetrating voter fraud faces jail time. Second, cast your vote by emailing in a picture of yourself holding a picture of your candidate. Most people have cell phone cameras, etc. and help is available at the libraries. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2008, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-and-michigan-delegates/440350/43 "2008-03-09T18:23:39Z")
[QUOTE=The Controvert] 2 easy ways to solve that problem. First, anyone caught perpetrating voter fraud faces jail time. Second, cast your vote by emailing in a picture of yourself holding a picture of your candidate. **Most people have cell phone cameras, etc.** [sup]1[/sup] and help is available at the libraries[sup]2[/sup]. [/QUOTE] **Cite?[sup]1[/sup]** [sup]2[/sup]Librarians in the locations I frequent are kept busy helpful everyday patrons with computer/internet needs, so wouldn’t it be an overwhelming time and financial burden on those employees/systems to try to foist this thing off on them in this way? The very fact that cost is being described as prohibitive if re-done in the “normal” way suggests library resources would be overly taxed trying to handle something that is not their responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2008, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-and-michigan-delegates/440350/44 "2008-03-09T18:52:12Z")
> [@](#): > > Reminds me of what happened to that poor woman in Florida who stopped the recounts and was blamed for being partisan Katherine Harris is poor? What happened to all those illegal campaign donations she got? ---
**Author:** ![BrainFireBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e495f1/32.png) [@BrainFireBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainFireBob)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2008, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-and-michigan-delegates/440350/45 "2008-03-09T21:16:40Z")
She lost her career over doing her job. People accusing her of playing partisan politics need to read Florida law- I believe it’s in the state constitution- that mandates a date at which the winner of the state’s electors _must be_ declared. The date arrived, she acted. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-and-michigan-delegates/440350/46 "2008-03-10T06:16:23Z")
[QUOTE=5-4-Fighting] **Cite?[sup]1[/sup]** [sup]2[/sup]Librarians in the locations I frequent are kept busy helpful everyday patrons with computer/internet needs, so wouldn’t it be an overwhelming time and financial burden on those employees/systems to try to foist this thing off on them in this way? The very fact that cost is being described as prohibitive if re-done in the “normal” way suggests library resources would be overly taxed trying to handle something that is not their responsibility. [/QUOTE] With a mobile [market penetration](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mobile_network_operators_of_the_Americas#United_States) of 81%, many of which have cameras, can you honestly tell me you cannot find someone with a either a digital camera or a cell phone? Public libraries are paid by taxpayers and serve the public. Would it really screw you up if a librarian doesn’t help you for one day? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-and-michigan-delegates/440350/47 "2008-03-10T06:21:04Z")
[QUOTE=Saint Cad] Yet another reason why the states should stay out of primaries. I’ve said it a million times, the states have to pay millions of dollars to run elections for a private organization. And then the private organization says, “Fuck you! You need to run it our way!” then states should say, “Fuck you! Run it and pay for it yourself!” BUT WAIT!!! That’s asking Republicans and Democrats to not spend TAXPAYER MONEY to run these little private elections for themselves. [/QUOTE] Or, alternatively, the parties can go back to nominating the candidates in smoke-filled rooms with NO voter involvement, and you can simply rubber-stamp their choice. You want a say, you have to pony up and follow the rules. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-and-michigan-delegates/440350/48 "2008-03-10T07:57:07Z")
deleted ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-and-michigan-delegates/440350/49 "2008-03-10T08:19:28Z")
> [@](#): > > She lost her career over doing her job. People accusing her of playing partisan politics need to read Florida law- I believe it’s in the state constitution- that mandates a date at which the winner of the state’s electors _must be_ declared. The date arrived, she acted. Well that explains where your error arose from. Let’s look at the [Florida Constitution](http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?Mode=Constitution&Submenu=3&Tab=statutes). Let’s see, we’ve got _“All political power is inherent in the people”_ right there at the beginning; that’s nice. And _“A public office is a public trust. The people shall have the right to secure and sustain that trust against abuse.”_ - that’s good. We’ve got _“No person shall be deprived of any right because of race, religion, national origin, or physical disability”_ and _“No person shall be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law”_ - well, they didn’t specify voting as a right, so Harris didn’t technically violate the Constitution by disenfranchising black voters. And she broke _“All elected constitutional officers and candidates for such offices and, as may be determined by law, other public officers, candidates, and employees shall file full and public disclosure of their financial interests”_ and _“All elected public officers and candidates for such offices shall file full and public disclosure of their campaign finances”_ but there’s no proof she received any illegal contributions before 2000 so we’ll let that one go also. There’s a _“No person holding any office of emolument under any foreign government, or civil office of emolument under the United States or any other state, shall hold any office of honor or of emolument under the government of this state”_ which raises issues about Harris working for the Bush campaign while serving in office, but I’ll assume her lawyers cleared her on that. We also have a _“The courts shall be open to every person for redress of any injury, and justice shall be administered without sale, denial or delay”_ and _“The judicial power shall be vested in a supreme court, district courts of appeal, circuit courts and county courts”_ which would seem to say that the Florida courts had legtimate grounds to rule on the voting process. And here’s the entire section on Elections: > [@](#): > > SECTION 1. Regulation of elections. All elections by the people shall be by direct and secret vote. General elections shall be determined by a plurality of votes cast. Registration and elections shall, and political party functions may, be regulated by law; however, the requirements for a candidate with no party affiliation or for a candidate of a minor party for placement of the candidate’s name on the ballot shall be no greater than the requirements for a candidate of the party having the largest number of registered voters. > > SECTION 2. Electors. Every citizen of the United States who is at least eighteen years of age and who is a permanent resident of the state, if registered as provided by law, shall be an elector of the county where registered. > > SECTION 3. Oath. Each eligible citizen upon registering shall subscribe the following: “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will protect and defend the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of Florida, and that I am qualified to register as an elector under the Constitution and laws of the State of Florida.” > > SECTION 4. Disqualifications.– > > (a) No person convicted of a felony, or adjudicated in this or any other state to be mentally incompetent, shall be qualified to vote or hold office until restoration of civil rights or removal of disability. > > (b) No person may appear on the ballot for re-election to any of the following offices: > > (1) Florida representative, > > (2) Florida senator, > > (3) Florida Lieutenant governor, > > (4) any office of the Florida cabinet, > > (5) U.S. Representative from Florida, or > > (6) U.S. Senator from Florida > > if, by the end of the current term of office, the person will have served (or, but for resignation, would have served) in that office for eight consecutive years. > > SECTION 5. Primary, general, and special elections.– > > (a) A general election shall be held in each county on the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November of each even-numbered year to choose a successor to each elective state and county officer whose term will expire before the next general election and, except as provided herein, to fill each vacancy in elective office for the unexpired portion of the term. A general election may be suspended or delayed due to a state of emergency or impending emergency pursuant to general law. Special elections and referenda shall be held as provided by law. > > (b) If all candidates for an office have the same party affiliation and the winner will have no opposition in the general election, all qualified electors, regardless of party affiliation, may vote in the primary elections for that office. > > SECTION 6. Municipal and district elections. Registration and elections in municipalities shall, and in other governmental entities created by statute may, be provided by law. > > SECTION 7. Campaign spending limits and funding of campaigns for elective state-wide office. It is the policy of this state to provide for state-wide elections in which all qualified candidates may compete effectively. A method of public financing for campaigns for state-wide office shall be established by law. Spending limits shall be established for such campaigns for candidates who use public funds in their campaigns. The legislature shall provide funding for this provision. General law implementing this paragraph shall be at least as protective of effective competition by a candidate who uses public funds as the general law in effect on January 1, 1998. Nothing there about a date that the results must be declared by. And while it has nothing to do with the issue before us, I want to salute the people of Florida for taking the lead in protecting porcine rights by enacting a Consitutional amendment “limiting cruel and inhumane confinement of pigs during pregnancy”. The rest of us can only hang our heads in shame for our unwillingness to address the ongoing suffering that pregnant pigs endure in our states. Won’t somebody think of the piglets? ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-and-michigan-delegates/440350/50 "2008-03-10T08:44:05Z")
[QUOTE=DMark] Here is my suggestion for a FREE re-vote in those states: 1. Everyone in those states is eligible to have a driver’s license, even if you don’t drive or have a car. 2. The DMV has each license on file and has a secure link. 3. Add a special link. Vote through the DMV sites from each state, ON-LINE, using your license as verification. 4. On the “election day”, simply log on (at home or at a public library or wherever, and vote. 5. It would be a great test for future primaries and the results could be quickly and easily verified and tabulated. The cost of this re-do election would be minimal…and even the little grey haired ladies in Florida could go to a public library and have someone log in for them and let them vote on-line. [/QUOTE] Didn’t the 9/11 terrorists have Florida Driver’s Licenses? Don’t Florida Republicans have DLs? Should the right to vote be contingent on getting a DL? What about the blind, disabled or epileptic, who can’t get DLs? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-and-michigan-delegates/440350/51 "2008-03-10T17:02:50Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] And while it has nothing to do with the issue before us, I want to salute the people of Florida for taking the lead in protecting porcine rights by enacting a Consitutional amendment “limiting cruel and inhumane confinement of pigs during pregnancy”. [/QUOTE] I recall that when that amendment was pending, my brother advised his boss that if it passed, he would try to get himself legally reclassified as a pregnant sow. (You get a bigger cubicle that way.) ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-and-michigan-delegates/440350/52 "2008-03-10T18:11:53Z")
[QUOTE=The Controvert] With a mobile [market penetration](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mobile_network_operators_of_the_Americas#United_States) of 81%, many of which have cameras, can you honestly tell me you cannot find someone with a either a digital camera or a cell phone? Public libraries are paid by taxpayers and serve the public. Would it really screw you up if a librarian doesn’t help you for one day? [/QUOTE] Not all cell phones have cameras, nor the capacity to transmit pictures even if they do. Additionally, besides the fact that I never stated that I objected to this because a librarian might not be able to help me specifically, “public libraries _are_ paid by taxpayers and serve the public” but not in the capacity of running elections. That’s what Boards of Election, etc. were created for. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-and-michigan-delegates/440350.md?page=2)