# The Florida insiders get face-planted **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 29, 2018, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472 "2018-08-29T14:33:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/61 "2018-08-29T21:05:13Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Exactly, and, despite the screeching idiocy from various extremists, this is what’s won. This is what works. > > The fact it means you don’t get to kill the [del]Jews[/del] Liberals in Glorious Revolution is a _feature_, not a bug. It’s pretty much what we have in every modern country, just in different degrees. It’s the societal consensus that we should have a free economy and take care of those left behind. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/62 "2018-08-29T21:21:03Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > African-American voters tend to support black candidates in Democratic primaries. If there are no black candidates, they tend to support the establishment choice, and if there is no establishment favorite, they tend to vote for a moderate candidate. > > There is still very little constituency for Sanders’ brand of “I’m against the Democratic Party but I want to win their nomination and pull them to the left” politics. Black voters are very loyal to the party as it IS. Support for pulling it to the left is primarily the province of young, well educated white voters. Sanders won blacks under 30. So…Sanders-style progressivism is horribly unpopular among blacks, but all we have to do to overcome that is nominate black candidates? Keith Ellison 2020! ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/63 "2018-08-29T21:21:39Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > Finland is not socialist in the least, certainly not in the Marxist sense. It’s certainly not any more socialist than the USA. > > As I said in an earlier post, “What people call “socialism” nowadays is really just capitalist welfarism, or redistributive capitalism”. > > Having a generous welfare state DOES NOT equal socialism. You’re the one throwing around the term and claiming people who use iPhones can’t be socialists. ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/64 "2018-08-29T21:30:34Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > You’re the one throwing around the term and claiming people who use iPhones can’t be socialists. Am I? I used the term “iPhone socialist” in jest, and then when my made-up label was questioned and challenged, I tried to succinctly explain why the existence and prevalence of iPhones would be implausible in a socialist economy. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/65 "2018-08-29T21:35:28Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > That’s not ironic. The ironic part is that they call themselves socialists. Okay, so “irony” is also something you don’t know how to define. Right on. You’re really making a hell of a pitch for the Florida education system here. ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/66 "2018-08-29T21:49:20Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Okay, so “irony” is also something you don’t know how to define. Right on. I’m not sure how you’re defining irony (it has several different applications you know), but if you don’t see any irony in a person using a tool that is basically digitized and materialized capitalism, and using that very tool to demand that socialism be implemented, then I don’t know how I can help you. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/67 "2018-08-29T21:57:08Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Ron DeSantis is telling voters not to [“monkey this up”](http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/404151-desantis-florida-voters-shouldnt-monkey-this-up-by-voting-for) by electing Gillum. … > [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I can’t remember ever hearing the phrase “monkey [_something_] up” before. _Muck_ something up, or _monkey around with_ something… but is “monkey it up” really a thing? > [@BigT](#): > > … “Monkey this up” is not a normal expression. I limit Google to 2016 or earlier, and still the top posts on the exact phrase are about this guy saying it–just on pages where the date is messed up. … I would bet a considerable sum that DeSantis and his advisers discussed various terms DeSantis might drop into that upcoming interview, with the goal being to put his name at the top of the news, thrill the base, and maybe even get The Big Guy (\) to mention DeSantis again. And I would further bet that the phrase they decided on was “monkey around with the economy.” And there was Ron under the Fox News studio lights, getting all excited and a little anxious about the upcoming Big Moment. And…he flubbed it. Being a pol of little brain, he couldn’t quite remember “monkey around with the economy.” Instead, he blurted out “monkey this up.” But…it was okay! It works just as well! He’s at the top of the news! The base adores him! …and Big Guy may yet smile upon him with another mention! So, happy ending. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/68 "2018-08-29T22:00:07Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > I’m not sure how you’re defining irony (it has several different applications you know), but if you don’t see any irony in a person using a tool that is basically digitized and materialized capitalism, and using that very tool to demand that socialism be implemented, then I don’t know how I can help you. There are, indeed, several different definitions of irony. You’ve managed to miss all of them in this conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/69 "2018-08-29T22:08:21Z")
An iPhone Marxist would indeed be ironic. But since, as you’ve yourself pointed out, socialism isn’t the same thing as Marxism, there’s nothing ironic about an iPhone socialist. ---
**Author:** ![RickG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rickg/32/5174_2.png) [@RickG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickG)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/70 "2018-08-29T22:11:05Z")
Anecdotes are not data, but… My parents made the full-time move to Florida a couple of years ago. My mother has always been a left-of-center Democrat, and my father has always been a right-of-center Republican. In my memory, he’s only voted D a couple of times, and over very specific issues. He never much liked Trump, and voted for Gary Johnson in 2016 (_sigh_), though he voted R for other offices. This year he has given Mom a written pledge to vote a straight Democratic ticket in November. I hope there are other old Floridians following his lead. ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/71 "2018-08-29T23:33:30Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > I tried to succinctly explain why the existence and prevalence of iPhones would be implausible in a socialist economy. No, you didn’t. You made the claim that they are capitalism distilled into hand=held form, but provided no evidence of this. Why would a socialist system be unable to produce such a mind-boggling useful tool? Are you assuming that socialism is this absolutely terrible system in which nothing productive ever gets done? All you’re saying by this is that socialism sucks and can’t do anything useful, without providing any evidence that an iPhone would never be produced by such a system. You maybe mean the fact that iPhones are rather expensive and only wealthy people can afford them, when it’s been like 10 years or more since they came out, and pretty much anyone who wants one has one of some kind, even if it’s rather old or under-featured, or not actually made by Apple. Now, if you said “Socialist who buys a new iPhone every year”, you might have an argument. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/72 "2018-08-29T23:44:41Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > How do you conclude that would be a good thing? My point is simple: in a swing state with overtones of conservatism, nominating a person viewed as strongly “liberal” is very likely going to cost the election. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/73 "2018-08-30T00:00:37Z")
On a more fundamental level, how does one conclude that ANY chain of events that ends with a fucking REPUBLICAN prevailing in an electoral contest can be described as “a good thing?” ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/74 "2018-08-30T00:00:57Z")
Gee, maybe he’s not a racist you guys, or [maybe…](https://american-ledger.com/accountability/desantis-moderates-hate-filled-facebook-group-that-attacks-african-americans-parkland-survivors-and-muslims/) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/75 "2018-08-30T00:28:56Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > Sanders won blacks under 30. > > So…Sanders-style progressivism is horribly unpopular among blacks, but all we have to do to overcome that is nominate black candidates? Keith Ellison 2020! Sure, but at some point African-Americans will demand to choose their candidates. Cherry picking the most left wing black candidates is something you can only get away with for so long. If African-Americans are truly represented in Congress, you’ll have hardcore Christian types, Nation of Islam types, moderates, and sure, some down the line liberals as well. Not too many small government conservatives, but the few African-Americans who are supporters of that philosophy already have a party to run in. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/76 "2018-08-30T00:30:55Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Gee, maybe he’s not a racist you guys, or [maybe…](https://american-ledger.com/accountability/desantis-moderates-hate-filled-facebook-group-that-attacks-african-americans-parkland-survivors-and-muslims/) I don’t think DeSantis is a racist, but he’s decided that courting Trump and his supporters is his path to political success, so he gets a big no thanks from me. Shame too, because his resume is impressive. Served in Iraq and he’s actually a super smart dude. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/77 "2018-08-30T00:33:06Z")
Gillum didn’t win the primary because he’s a far left black guy. He won because he actually has a pretty solid resume and immense natural talent and charisma and ran a very skillful campaign. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/78 "2018-08-30T00:41:26Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Heh. Actually, it’s just welfare state capitalism. The Third Way. Have a capitalist economy, but spread the wealth as much as possible. Utilize the free market to serve progressive ends. If the Nordic model is the Third Way, that means that Tony Blair and Bill Clinton were no further left than center-right, and Bernie is a moderate. So what does that imply about the state of progressivism in the USA? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/79 "2018-08-30T00:41:43Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I don’t think DeSantis is a racist, but he’s decided that courting Trump and his supporters is his path to political success, so he gets a big no thanks from me. > > Shame too, because his resume is impressive. Served in Iraq and he’s actually a super smart dude. Promoting and supporting racism makes you a racist, that he is only doing it for electoral success makes him worse than the run of the mill ignorant shitstains. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/80 "2018-08-30T00:48:55Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > Sanders won blacks under 30. > > So…Sanders-style progressivism is horribly unpopular among blacks, but all we have to do to overcome that is nominate black candidates? Keith Ellison 2020! This, unironically. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472.md?page=5)