# The Florida insiders get face-planted **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 29, 2018, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472 "2018-08-29T14:33:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/81 "2018-08-30T00:51:37Z")
I am really surprised that ‘articulate’ now means ‘a credit to his race’. I just can’t keep up. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/82 "2018-08-30T01:00:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Gillum didn’t win the primary because he’s a far left black guy. He won because he actually has a pretty solid resume and immense natural talent and charisma and ran a very skillful campaign. The debate seems to have been when Gillum’s numbers started to make a move. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/83 "2018-08-30T01:05:48Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > If the Nordic model is the Third Way, that means that Tony Blair and Bill Clinton were no further left than center-right, and Bernie is a moderate. So what does that imply about the state of progressivism in the USA? The Nordic model is Third Way, but it’s as far left down that path as you can probably go. Clinton and Blair occupy the center of Third Way politics, and Republicans would occupy the right. But all are in basic agreement about the basic model of the economy and the government: free markets, aid to the elderly, disabled, and poor. It’s just an argument over how much to spend and under what conditions. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/84 "2018-08-30T01:12:35Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Uh. Nokia is made in Finland. Pretty socialist. Siri says its Obama’s fault, Cortana blames the Jews. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/85 "2018-08-30T10:21:36Z")
The interesting thing here is that pointing out racism, even super fucking blatant racism, doesn’t seem like a winning strategy for the dems. The more people talk about this culture war issue, the less they’re talking about other things. And that’s the key - in today’s America, the right only has one string to their bow: culture warring. It’s their strongest suit more or less by default. There was a recent interview with Gauland from the AfD, Germany’s “republican lite” party. The mod did something clever - he asked Gauland a whole bunch of questions that had nothing to do with immigration or asylum policies. And, as it turns out, Gauland had no answers. No proposed policies on any one of these major issues facing Germany. Republicans are in a similar position. Their actual held positions are overwhelmingly unpopular, but if they can make the conversation all about how liberals are PC weenies playing the race card, that doesn’t matter. So basically, overtly dog whistling is a winning move for them. Which is preeeetty gross. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/86 "2018-08-30T10:56:55Z")
I hate to say it, but I think DeSantis is going to win the election, and fairly easily. I hope I’m wrong, but Florida’s more conservative than liberal. And Gillum has some very real problems brewing, with the FBI investigating Tallahassee city politics. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/87 "2018-08-30T11:04:01Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > The interesting thing here is that pointing out racism, even super fucking blatant racism, doesn’t seem like a winning strategy for the dems. The more people talk about this culture war issue, the less they’re talking about other things. And that’s the key - in today’s America, the right only has one string to their bow: culture warring. It’s their strongest suit more or less by default. > > There was a recent interview with Gauland from the AfD, Germany’s “republican lite” party. The mod did something clever - he asked Gauland a whole bunch of questions that had nothing to do with immigration or asylum policies. And, as it turns out, Gauland had no answers. No proposed policies on any one of these major issues facing Germany. > > Republicans are in a similar position. Their actual held positions are overwhelmingly unpopular, but if they can make the conversation all about how liberals are PC weenies playing the race card, that doesn’t matter. So basically, overtly dog whistling is a winning move for them. Which is preeeetty gross. This also has the effect of dividing the opposition, with one faction demanding (people of color) fixating on racial justice issues and another (white moderates and progressives) wanting to avoid talking about race and instead seeking to direct the focus toward economic issues. The two factions, over time, become frustrated with each other and begin going in separate directions, which strengthens the more cohesive right wing extremists. On the other hand, we have a dynamic in which all progressives, becoming ever more outraged by blatant economic injustice and corruption of the right, conclude that the entire economic and political system is broken beyond repair and begin offering radical alternatives of their own. Thus, we’re left with a choice between a nationalist fascism on the right and variants of socialism and anti-capitalism on the right, with both sides sucking the air away from the center. Again, think Europe 1920s and 30s. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/88 "2018-08-30T12:24:56Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I hate to say it, but I think DeSantis is going to win the election, and fairly easily. I hope I’m wrong, but Florida’s more conservative than liberal. The problem is how many conservatives are going to be repelled by his crudeness and blank their ballots, or just not show up. As Scott Maxwell of the Sentinel (always a must read)[points out today](http://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/os-election-takeaways-florida-orlando-primary-scott-maxwell-20180829-story.html#nt=oft12aH-2gp2), there were still more Republican than Democratic ballots cast on Tuesday in Florida. It’s questionable how much of the non-Fox-obsessed party base will vote for him. One thing we should know by now is that polling methods have been left a bit behind in the social-media age, and not to trust any of them until they catch up. > [@](#): > > And Gillum has some very real problems brewing, with the FBI investigating Tallahassee city politics. None of which has reached him personally, although he’s still open to the should-have-known charge. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/89 "2018-08-30T13:20:53Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I hate to say it, but I think DeSantis is going to win the election, and fairly easily. I hope I’m wrong, but Florida’s more conservative than liberal. And Gillum has some very real problems brewing, with the FBI investigating Tallahassee city politics. Current betting markets say about 60% chance of DeSantis winning and I think that’s about right. DeSantis isn’t too conservative to win Florida. Gillum on the other hand, is too liberal. But the combination of the Blue Wave and high black turnout makes Gillum a contender. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/90 "2018-08-30T13:25:44Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The problem is how many conservatives are going to be repelled by his crudeness and blank their ballots, or just not show up. As Scott Maxwell of the Sentinel (always a must read)[points out today](http://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/os-election-takeaways-florida-orlando-primary-scott-maxwell-20180829-story.html#nt=oft12aH-2gp2), there were still more Republican than Democratic ballots cast on Tuesday in Florida. It’s questionable how much of the non-Fox-obsessed party base will vote for him. > > One thing we should know by now is that polling methods have been left a bit behind in the social-media age, and not to trust any of them until they catch up. > > None of which has reached him personally, although he’s still open to the should-have-known charge. I admit that I haven’t kept with it much but one of the articles I read (Politico, maybe?) indicated that the investigation has been pretty thorough with agents posing as contractors. The DoJ doesn’t turn a blind eye to municipal corruption. Quite the opposite: it’s one of the crimes they seem to relish prosecuting the most. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/91 "2018-08-30T15:24:43Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The problem is how many conservatives are going to be repelled by his crudeness and blank their ballots, Can’t they just vote for him but _say_ they did that? ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/92 "2018-08-30T15:37:52Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I hate to say it, but I think DeSantis is going to win the election, and fairly easily. I hope I’m wrong, but Florida’s more conservative than liberal. And Gillum has some very real problems brewing, with the FBI investigating Tallahassee city politics. > [@adaher](#): > > Current betting markets say about 60% chance of DeSantis winning and I think that’s about right. DeSantis isn’t too conservative to win Florida. Gillum on the other hand, is too liberal. Funny, someone made this statement upthread. And none of the more “liberal” posters has addressed the thesis that in choosing the more liberal candidate, Florida’s Democrats have most likely given away the election in the fall. Of course, **ElvisL1ves** notes that polls are currently a bit dicey at predicting things. We should also note that there are two full months for someone to do something really incredibly stupid, as opposed to merely sorta stupid. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/93 "2018-08-30T15:55:40Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > As Scott Maxwell of the Sentinel (always a must read)[points out today](http://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/os-election-takeaways-florida-orlando-primary-scott-maxwell-20180829-story.html#nt=oft12aH-2gp2), there were still more Republican than Democratic ballots cast on Tuesday in Florida. That’s meaningless. People bring it up all the time when it serves their hope or argument but primary turnout is not correlated with general election turnout. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/94 "2018-08-30T17:39:21Z")
Here’s the thing with Gillum though: 1. He’s a talented candidate, which can overcome being ideologically out of step with the voters. 2. Assuming he stokes black turnout, you can give Bill Nelson an extra 2 points in his race against Rick Scott. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/95 "2018-08-30T17:46:29Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Here’s the thing with Gillum though: > > 1. He’s a talented candidate, which can overcome being ideologically out of step with the voters. > 2. Assuming he stokes black turnout, you can give Bill Nelson an extra 2 points in his race against Rick Scott. Yep. Plus, 1. A talented candidate can convince the voters to shift their own ideology his way. In fact, that’s how leadership in public service _works_. 2. Yes, and on down the ballot too. Not just blacks, either - there are hundreds of thousands of new Florida voters who were Puerto Ricans until recently, and few of whom would have much reason to sympathize with a Trumpist. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/96 "2018-08-30T18:21:35Z")
He will have to shift his stance on ICE. We need to reform our immigration controls, but as he is interpreted now, he favors abolishing, and that just won’t fly. Creating a just and humane ICE would be a more worthy goal. For all practical purposes, such a re-ordering would be an abolishment, but that one word is enough to panic a metric buttload of Floridians. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/97 "2018-08-30T18:37:46Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > He will have to shift his stance on ICE. We need to reform our immigration controls, but as he is interpreted now, he favors abolishing, and that just won’t fly. That one is easy for even a journeyman pol to “clarify”. I don’t think it will have legs. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/98 "2018-08-30T18:47:31Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Can’t they just vote for him but _say_ they did that? Voting takes conscious effort and dedication, people have to be genuinely into it to even get to a poll. Things like this do matter, people do say “fuck it” and stay home. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/99 "2018-08-30T21:52:33Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I don’t think DeSantis is a racist, [Not so fast there, big fella…](https://thinkprogress.org/florida-gop-gubernatorial-nominee-ron-desantis-admin-racist-anti-muslim-facebook-group-6e6d527c6fc2/) Whoops, ninja’d by **DigitalC** , sigh. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472/100 "2018-08-30T23:16:04Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > … > Republicans are in a similar position. Their actual held positions are overwhelmingly unpopular, but if they can make the conversation all about how liberals are PC weenies playing the race card, that doesn’t matter. So basically, overtly dog whistling is a winning move for them. Which is preeeetty gross. Oh. So you think this isn’t just general distractions, but distraction with a specific, defined purpose. I think that argument will appeal only to the choir. Still, I do think pointing out “monkey” is enough, and “articulate” should be left out of it. There are just too many inarticulate people for that to really read like an insult. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-florida-insiders-get-face-planted/820472.md?page=6)