# The flu symptoms this year are confusing and deadly. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 4, 2015, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flu-symptoms-this-year-are-confusing-and-deadly/708921 "2015-01-04T02:27:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flu-symptoms-this-year-are-confusing-and-deadly/708921/41 "2015-01-04T17:34:26Z")
What’s really sad, from the first link in the OP: > [@](#): > > Mikey had asthma and he had pneumonia in the past which could make any illness harder on him. His mother was also weighing whether he should get a flu shot this year because she had heard it wasn’t as effective. I’m sure it’s not fair to pile on the poor parents here, but wasn’t this kid a prime candidate for the flu vaccine? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flu-symptoms-this-year-are-confusing-and-deadly/708921/42 "2015-01-04T17:55:37Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > The 1918 flu was also categorically more severe than other strains. Previous to 1918 people got the flu and survived in predictable numbers. The 1918 flu wiped out a disproportionate number of people, and in particular the youg and strong, rather than the old and weak. > > Viruses are hard to fight off since they infect your own cells and can mutate very rapidly. Bacteria, being a very different type of cell, has biological characteristics antibiotics can target while leaving the body’s cells unharmed. It is an area where medicine does struggle because of these innate characteristics. While many viruses have effective vaccines, flu, in part because of how it evolves is a bit trickier. it was also strange in that in disproportionately hit the healthy. Some people think it set off cytokine storms in the body - which means that a healthy immune response has the potential to make the problem worse, not better. Bad virus, atypical presentation, a lot of mobility due to WWI and a lot of close quarters, and resources going in both the U.S. and Europe to war mobilization - it was bad virus under bad circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flu-symptoms-this-year-are-confusing-and-deadly/708921/43 "2015-01-04T18:00:13Z")
> [@chiroptera](#): > > but wasn’t this kid a prime candidate for the flu vaccine? **YES**. Kid should have had the flu shot. Regardless of how effective it’s turning out to be in that year. It still protects against strains of the flu going around this season. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flu-symptoms-this-year-are-confusing-and-deadly/708921/44 "2015-01-04T18:04:40Z")
> [@grude](#): > > How does influenza caused sepsis work? > [@](#): > > Sepsis is a potentially life-threatening complication of an infection. Sepsis occurs when chemicals released into the bloodstream to fight the infection trigger inflammatory responses throughout the body. This inflammation can trigger a cascade of changes that can damage multiple organ systems, causing them to fail. So viruses can cause sepsis too. It’s sort of a ‘scorched earth’ response to an infection. The body, in its zeal to wipe out the invader, destroys the battlefield in the process. And death can result. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flu-symptoms-this-year-are-confusing-and-deadly/708921/45 "2015-01-04T18:19:36Z")
It should be noted that on a historical basis, [mortality from influenza has declined considerably](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2374803/). _“An overall and substantial decline in influenza-classed mortality was observed during the 20th century, from an average seasonal rate of 10.2 deaths per 100 000 population in the 1940s to 0.56 per 100 000 by the 1990s. The 1918–1919 pandemic stands out as an exceptional outlier.”_ This improvement in survival has occurred in spite of increasing numbers of elderly and other at-risk people who are especially susceptible to flu-related complications. We have antibiotics to cover secondary infections like bacterial pneumonia that have killed many flu victims, and better intensive care to improve survival. There’s a kind of irony in the fact that the antivax crowd uses declining death rates from flu and other infectious diseases to argue that vaccines against them are unnecessary. Obviously, avoiding a disease like flu (that under the best of circumstances makes you miserable for a week or more, or could put you into the hospital or leave you with long-term complications or kill you) is better than having to depend on advanced medical care to save you once you get sick. I’m looking forward to the new generation of flu shots that target stable parts of the influenza virus genome, so that one vaccination lasts many years (or for a lifetime). Can’t come soon enough. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flu-symptoms-this-year-are-confusing-and-deadly/708921/46 "2015-01-04T18:56:18Z")
I got my pneumonia shot a couple years ago. I need to ask my doctor which one he gave me. PPSV23 or PCV13) Its a relief knowing I’m protected because I had pneumonia in 1979. Put me in the hospital 6 days. I was pretty weak for another 10 days. Nasty stuff. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flu-symptoms-this-year-are-confusing-and-deadly/708921/47 "2015-01-04T18:59:09Z")
> [@chiroptera](#): > > I’m sure it’s not fair to pile on the poor parents here, but wasn’t this kid a prime candidate for the flu vaccine? Yes. That child should have received the flu vaccine. I’ve been getting the flu shot since the mid-1970s, so it’s not like “give the asthmatic kid a flu shot” is a new idea. However, the vaccine this year didn’t have influenza A in it, which is the variant that’s felling everyone. It might have provided some protection, though. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flu-symptoms-this-year-are-confusing-and-deadly/708921/48 "2015-01-04T19:21:46Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > Yes. That child should have received the flu vaccine. I’ve been getting the flu shot since the mid-1970s, so it’s not like “give the asthmatic kid a flu shot” is a new idea. > > However, the vaccine this year didn’t have influenza A in it, which is the variant that’s felling everyone. It might have provided some protection, though. this year’s vaccine has two A “strains” in it, but one that’s actually going around mutated just enough in the meantime that the vaccine is less affective against it. ---
**Author:** ![picunurse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flu-symptoms-this-year-are-confusing-and-deadly/708921/49 "2015-01-04T19:48:49Z")
I’ve cared for pediatric patients with influenza A that had to go on [E.C.M.O (extracorporial membrane oxygenation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extracorporeal_membrane_oxygenation) a process that by-passes the heart and lungs until they can heal. The average, non-medically oriented person rarely hears about this kind of medical advancement. Because it’s complicated, dangerous in itself, and very expensive, it isn’t used until other means are exhausted. Often, by then it’s too late, even for such drastic treatment. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flu-symptoms-this-year-are-confusing-and-deadly/708921/50 "2015-01-04T19:51:12Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > So viruses can cause sepsis too. It’s sort of a ‘scorched earth’ response to an infection. The body, in its zeal to wipe out the invader, destroys the battlefield in the process. And death can result. Interesting thanks, so as said earlier in the thread antibiotics would have been useless and there was no secondary infection, but an immune system response to the virus. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flu-symptoms-this-year-are-confusing-and-deadly/708921/51 "2015-01-04T20:42:46Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Interesting thanks, so as said earlier in the thread antibiotics would have been useless and there was no secondary infection, but an immune system response to the virus. Secondary infections can easily set in when the body is devastated by the first infection. It gets complicated. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flu-symptoms-this-year-are-confusing-and-deadly/708921/52 "2015-01-04T20:45:19Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I got my pneumonia shot a couple years ago. I need to ask my doctor which one he gave me. PPSV23 or PCV13) > > Its a relief knowing I’m protected because I had pneumonia in 1979. Put me in the hospital 6 days. I was pretty weak for another 10 days. Nasty stuff. Know that pneumococcal vaccine will NOT make you immune to pneumonia; it will just reduce your risk for coming down with pneumonia due to a number of different, more common pathogens. There are thousands of different things that can cause pneumonia. Bacteria, fungi, viruses, chemicals, allergens, barotrauma, and more. ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flu-symptoms-this-year-are-confusing-and-deadly/708921/53 "2015-01-05T01:47:44Z")
I’ve apparently got the flu for the second time this season. In October, a week after I got my flu shot, I came down with what I thought was just a really bad cold which should run its course in 3-5 days. Didn’t happen. I ended up missing two days of work and dragging myself to the doctor who gave me narcotic cough medicine for a cough that eventually lasted three weeks. (He did offer me antibiotics which I told him I knew were worthless. Why do they still do that?) I woke up New Years Day with the same symptoms - chills and fever, back pain, headache, sore throat. The next day the drainage and cough kicked it and it’s gotten worse each day. The cough is bad enough during the day but as soon as I lay down, it kicks into high gear. I’ll call the doctor in the morning. I’m guessing that in the first case the vaccine hadn’t had time to take affect and that this newest bout is the mutated flu that isn’t covered. I haven’t been sick in years. It really sucks to be this incapacitated twice in a few months. I feel like shit. But it is a bad year. I know several people who have had this in the last month or so. The coughing seems to be the worst of it. And I wasn’t as careful during the holidays about prevention. I was very stressed, not eating right and I knew I wasn’t being as attentive to my handwashing after touching stuff. But I figured I had already been sick. And I didn’t know about the new flu. My bad. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Pai325](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pai325](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pai325)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flu-symptoms-this-year-are-confusing-and-deadly/708921/54 "2015-01-05T05:56:48Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > 20+ years ago was the vaccine even available? I got the Swine Flu vaccine in 1976, and almost every flu shot since then. ---
**Author:** ![tadtooornamental](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@tadtooornamental](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tadtooornamental)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flu-symptoms-this-year-are-confusing-and-deadly/708921/55 "2015-01-06T03:14:15Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Secondary infections can easily set in when the body is devastated by the first infection. > > It gets complicated. ^This. I’m currently fighting a sinus AND an ear infection brought on during the congestion phases of the flu that I had last week. And it definitely WAS the flu- fine Monday morning, but 2pm, I seriously considered wetting the bed because getting out of it and walking 20’ down the hall to the bathroom was such an ordeal. As far as vaccinations being recommended for everyone, I still labored under the assumption that they were only recommended for the young/elderly/infirm. Apparently in 2004 (when I was 18, so just becoming responsible for my own health and well being) there was a flu vaccine shortage, and so they DID only recommend it for certain classes of people that year. I suppose that one bit of trivia stuck with me, and I didn’t realize it WAS recommended for everyone now. I will certainly be sure to get one in the future, as I sure as hell don’t want to go through this again, ever! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Holdsworth\_Effect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/848f3c/32.png) [@The\_Holdsworth\_Effect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Holdsworth_Effect)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flu-symptoms-this-year-are-confusing-and-deadly/708921/56 "2015-01-06T05:26:59Z")
In support of Tamiflu- I just saw a woman who got it in Urgent Care two days ago and who had a very good response. She has/had Type A. She also had gotten a flu shot in 2014, October I think. In support of the flu vaccines- I had Guillain Barre Syndrome the year BEFORE the swine flu vaccines caused it, (1975). For two decades I was not given flu vaccines, until 1995. For almost 20 years I got the flu most years…and since I’ve been let to have them, not. (My GBS was caused by a campylobacter GI infection, probably my own fault) Flu season is full on in Western Wa, along with mudslides, rain , and 12th man induced quakes. We are still giving the vaccine, and still combating the guy in the grocery line who said good nutrition was all you need (with 12 pack of beer, chips, dip and salsa in cart , snork) types. It’s ok to come in when you’re sick- hopefully we can help. ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flu-symptoms-this-year-are-confusing-and-deadly/708921/57 "2015-01-06T06:24:42Z")
To clarify a little further: The predominent influenza strain showing up this year is an H3N2 variant. Unlike H1N1 which was responsible for the 1918 pandemic, H3N2 tends to be most lethal in young children and the elderly as well as in those with weakened immune systems. While there was “drift” in this year’s influenza strain, there is some cross-reactivity. The strain in the current North American vaccine is H3N2 Texas, while the majority of the cases of influenza have been H3N2 Switzerland, although there is still a significant proportion of H3N2 Texas causing disease. I worry that the publicity about this year’s flu shot being the wrong strain may discourage people from getting vaccinated. From the [CDC](http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/): > [@](#): > > A (H3N2) [268]: Eighty-five (31.7%) of the 268 H3N2 viruses tested have been characterized as A/Texas/50/2012-like, the influenza A (H3N2) component of the 2014-2015 Northern Hemisphere influenza vaccine. One hundred eighty-three (68.3%) of the 268 viruses tested showed either reduced titers with antiserum produced against A/Texas/50/2012 or belonged to a genetic group that typically shows reduced titers to A/Texas/50/2012. Among viruses that showed reduced titers with antiserum raised against A/Texas/50/2012, most were antigenically similar to A/Switzerland/9715293/2013, the H3N2 virus selected for the 2015 Southern Hemisphere influenza vaccine. A/Switzerland/9715293/2013 is related to, but antigenically and genetically distinguishable, from the A/Texas/50/2012 vaccine virus. A/Switzerland-like H3N2 viruses were first detected in the United States in small numbers in March of 2014 and began to increase through the spring and summer. ---
**Author:** ![jezzaOZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9a28c/32.png) [@jezzaOZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jezzaOZ)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flu-symptoms-this-year-are-confusing-and-deadly/708921/58 "2015-01-06T07:22:13Z")
I’m not sure I’ve ever had flu and I’m in my 50s. If so it passed quickly and easily. I have however had symptoms similar to many described here. Fever, body aches, weakness, blah blah. That wasn’t flu, it was acute bacterial infection (Staphholococcus Aureus) which can infect nose, throat, skin with ease. The rest of the body reacts to the infection with symptoms very similar to flu. There is a well known path from staph infections to sepsis. This may well account for the sepsis deaths in prior comments. And before you ask, there is no emergency room test for flu, nor for that matter for specific bacterial infections. All they can do is measure C Reactive Protein and white blood cell counts. Both are indicative of infection but not definitive for the particular type of infection. ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flu-symptoms-this-year-are-confusing-and-deadly/708921/59 "2015-01-06T08:00:30Z")
> [@](#): > > And before you ask, there is no emergency room test for flu, nor for that matter for specific bacterial infections. All they can do is measure C Reactive Protein and white blood cell counts. Both are indicative of infection but not definitive for the particular type of infection. This is wrong. While the gold standard of testing is still culture which takes days, there are indeed rapid influenza tests which depending on prevalence and the quality of the test can be fairly accurate. [info](http://www.cdc.gov/flu/professionals/diagnosis/rapidlab.htm). There are also rapid test for bacteria such as group A strep and mononucleosis that can be done in 5 minutes. Again, while they are not 100 % accurate, when done correctly and in the right situations, they have a good predictive value. Finally, there is the good old-fashioned microscope. I still remember the shock of my students at the VA when I made them do a gram stain on a sputum and they actually saw pneumococci in the specimen and were able to not only differentiate a bacterial infection from a viral infection but also to correctly identify the bacteria and to plan appropriate treatment. While we don’t always do the tests because ERs tend to treat everybody empirically with antibiotics, that doesn’t mean the tests don’t exist (and every ER I know absolutely does nasal swabs for influenza. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flu-symptoms-this-year-are-confusing-and-deadly/708921/60 "2015-01-06T12:31:02Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > this year’s vaccine has two A “strains” in it, but one that’s actually going around mutated just enough in the meantime that the vaccine is less affective against it. TY for the clarification. I’ve had the flu myself (with asthmatic complications) and haven’t done my due diligence on this one. > [@The\_Holdsworth\_Effect](#): > > In support of Tamiflu- I just saw a woman who got it in Urgent Care two days ago and who had a very good response. She has/had Type A. She also had gotten a flu shot in 2014, October I think. I’m the same – tested and found to have Type A, with flu shot in October 2014. Tamiflu shortened the worst of it to about 3 days. It was a \*\*LONG \*\*three days, but it was only 3 days. The coughing…well, it’s better, but it still is going on, and I’m still using the prescription meds (Tessalon perles). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flu-symptoms-this-year-are-confusing-and-deadly/708921.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flu-symptoms-this-year-are-confusing-and-deadly/708921.md?page=4)