# The Force: Strong but not Subtle? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 31, 2003, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-force-strong-but-not-subtle/210647 "2003-10-31T14:55:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-force-strong-but-not-subtle/210647/1 "2003-10-31T14:55:52Z")
So we all know that the force can have a poweful effect on the weak-minded. Fine. But yesterday I was contemplating how much simpler my life would be if I could change the batteries in my smoke detectors with The Force. Reach up, unclip the battery, send the new one up and BAM, no fuss no muss. What could be simpler? But it occurs to me that we almost NEVER see any subtle physical manifestations of the force. Yoda picks up the X-Wing Vader throws large objects Anakin floats a fruit Everyone and their kid brother throws lightning But all of those are **gross** manipulation of matter. I was thinking that, even with The Force being strong in me, if I needed to get the smoke detector off the ceiling it would be a pain in the butt because I’d never seen anything like the ability to unscrew a screw or somesuch. Dang. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-force-strong-but-not-subtle/210647/2 "2003-10-31T18:00:48Z")
About the closest I can think of is Vader flipping a switch on Bespin. But it was a pretty big switch. ---
**Author:** ![FordPrefect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@FordPrefect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordPrefect)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-force-strong-but-not-subtle/210647/3 "2003-10-31T18:25:00Z")
If you would have dropped the coin for a force-powered smoke detector, this problem would be solved. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-force-strong-but-not-subtle/210647/4 "2003-10-31T18:48:41Z")
Luke pulled his lightsaber to him on Hoth. That was pretty subtle. Yoda floats himself around on Coruscant, he’s pretty tiny (and it may have just been a hover cushion). X-Wing and Tie Fighter flying is vastly enhanced by using the force, and I’d imagine those movements are finely adjusted uses of the force. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-force-strong-but-not-subtle/210647/5 "2003-10-31T18:57:52Z")
Right before Yoda begins his light-sabre battle with **Dooku** , he Forces his sabre from his left hip to his right hand instead of actually reaching over and oulling it out of the holdster. [major spoiler for Ep I] Right before Qui-Gon is stabbed by Darth Maul in the climactic battle of Episode I, Obi-Wan, trapped behind the pink force-field, gasps, presumably because he realizes his mentor is about to meet his demise. [/spoiler] In Episode IV, when the Stormtroopers enter the room the droids are hiding out in, someone, presumably Obi-Wan, uses the Force to take out one of the Stormtroopers by forcing his head into the top of the doorway. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![withaK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8e7dd6/32.png) [@withaK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/withaK)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-force-strong-but-not-subtle/210647/6 "2003-10-31T18:59:06Z")
The Emperor removed the manacles from Luke on the second Death Star. That was a subtle use of the force. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-force-strong-but-not-subtle/210647/7 "2003-10-31T18:59:24Z")
I’ve heard that in the Extended Universe, some Jedi use lightsabres without external switches. You activate it using the Force, giving you the long, long ago equivalent of a child-safe cap on medicine. For that matter, construction of a lightsabre is said to require the Force for the most delicate manipulations, but it’s unclear whether the Force is making the manipulations directly, or if it just keeps you focussed enough for your own fingers to do the job. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-force-strong-but-not-subtle/210647/8 "2003-10-31T20:09:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by withaK \* > \*\*The Emperor removed the manacles from Luke on the second Death Star. That was a subtle use of the force. \*\* **This** is the sort of thing I was after. Grabbing a lightsaber and bringing it to you (that that little data ball Obi Wan has in the classroom in Ep 2) is pretty straightforward. But flicking a clasp from a distance? That’s cool. Could a sufficiently powerful force-user type without fingers? Enquiring minds want to know! ---
**Author:** ![badmana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@badmana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badmana)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-force-strong-but-not-subtle/210647/9 "2003-10-31T20:38:10Z")
In the books I would say yes. In one book (I forgot which one) luke flies the M/F without any touching of the controls. He was flipping switches and making adjustments all by himself (doing the work of pilot and co-pilot). ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-force-strong-but-not-subtle/210647/10 "2003-10-31T21:00:58Z")
I believe in one of the books someone flew an entire Star Destroyer by himself using the force. ---
**Author:** ![FlyingDragonFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c89c15/32.png) [@FlyingDragonFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingDragonFan)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-force-strong-but-not-subtle/210647/11 "2003-10-31T21:21:35Z")
It seems like I remember reading somewhere, it may even have been here, that using the Force for mundane things is a good way to get lured to the dark side. On the other hand, in AotC, Obi Wan, as he is following Yoda out of the kids’ training class, reaches backwards and wills the little hologram marble thingy into his hand. That sounds pretty mundane to me, but Yoda didn’t seem to mind. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-force-strong-but-not-subtle/210647/12 "2003-10-31T22:00:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Munch \* > I believe in one of the books someone flew an entire Star Destroyer by himself using the force. Didn’t one of the later novels had a bunch of Jedi students (including Leia and Han’s kids) throw a Star Destroyer into a star??? :eek: :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Murcielago](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@Murcielago](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Murcielago)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-force-strong-but-not-subtle/210647/13 "2003-10-31T22:24:59Z")
One scene force use (or lack thereof) in _Jedi_ has always bothered me. In the pit below Jabba’s throne room, Luke threw a rock into the control panel, lowering the gate on the creature’s neck. Why not use the force to either flip the switch or bring down the gate itself? His powers are vaguely defined, but both moves seem plausible and much cooler than simply making a lucky throw. Hardly the movie’s biggest flaw, it’s just a wierd choice IMO. ---
**Author:** ![by-tor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/by-tor/32/266_2.png) [@by-tor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/by-tor)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2003, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-force-strong-but-not-subtle/210647/14 "2003-11-01T03:55:26Z")
What about when Qui-Gon controls the outcome of the die roll in TPM? That is pretty damn subtle, unless I am completely misunderstanding the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2003, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-force-strong-but-not-subtle/210647/15 "2003-11-01T05:14:25Z")
Maybe because for the effort you spend using the Force to do such simple tasks, you might as well just do it without the Force? Plus, when Anakin is playing with his food, Obi-Wan would be pissed, because the Force shouldn’t be used to show off. ---
**Author:** ![Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambi_Hassenpfeffer)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2003, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-force-strong-but-not-subtle/210647/16 "2003-11-01T06:52:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gonzoron \* > \*\*About the closest I can think of is Vader flipping a switch on Bespin. But it was a pretty big switch. \*\* “It’s Mega-Maid, sir! She’s gone from suck to blow!” ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2003, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-force-strong-but-not-subtle/210647/17 "2003-11-01T09:12:16Z")
Suck! Suck! Suck! ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2003, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-force-strong-but-not-subtle/210647/18 "2003-11-01T13:32:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Satasha \* > \*\*What about when Qui-Gon controls the outcome of the die roll in TPM? That is pretty damn subtle, unless I am completely misunderstanding the OP. \*\* That’s a good one, too! And damned difficult. Of course, maybe he just altered our perception of the rolls outcome. ---
**Author:** ![by-tor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/by-tor/32/266_2.png) [@by-tor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/by-tor)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2003, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-force-strong-but-not-subtle/210647/19 "2003-11-01T16:37:58Z")
Mind tricks don’t work on Watto because he is a Toydarian. Plus it is obvious what Qui-Gon in that scene. ---
**Author:** ![by-tor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/by-tor/32/266_2.png) [@by-tor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/by-tor)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2003, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-force-strong-but-not-subtle/210647/20 "2003-11-01T16:39:10Z")
That should read: Plus it is obvious what Qui-Gon is doing in that scene. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-force-strong-but-not-subtle/210647.md?page=2)