# The Forever War - Has anybody read this? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 1, 2015, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-forever-war-has-anybody-read-this/716552 "2015-04-01T22:36:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![psiekier](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psiekier/32/116_2.png) [@psiekier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psiekier)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-forever-war-has-anybody-read-this/716552/41 "2015-04-09T19:27:54Z")
> [@2ManyTacos](#): > > I obviously haven’t read it yet, so don’t go too heavy on the spoiler talk. That said, for those who’ve read it, what did you think? Did you enjoy it? Why or why not? I love the _hell_ out of this book - right up there between Heinlein’s _Starship Troopers_ and Steakley’s _Armor_. I’m a sucker for anything good with heroes in powered armour. The part that was excised from the middle - but restored in later editions - involves some side trips that William and Marygay make while on shore leave together on Earth. William interrupts a rape-in-progress while they are in London, and meets Marygay’s parents on an agricultural collective in the American midwest. I seem to recall this piece being available in one of his collections if you got stuck with an edition that leaves it out. It would take a mighty effort in time and/or money to collect, but there’s a graphic adaption of _The Forever War_ by the Belgian illustrator Marvano that appeared in _Heavy Metal_ and (later) _Cheval Noir_. It’s pretty faithful to the original - Haldeman himself liked it - and it is very enjoyable to read. > [@Lightray](#): > > _Forever Free_ seems like it should be a sequel, but it isn’t. Although it revisits some of the same themes. _Forever Peace_ actually _is_ a sequel, and it starts off interesting then goes completely off the rails. You got the titles backwards, **Lightray**. _Forever Free_ is the sequel to _The Forever War_. But I know what you meant, and I whole-heartedly agree with your sentiments. I’d like to see _Forever Peace_ made into a movie, provided they don’t call it _Soldierboyz_ and cast L.L. Cool J as Julian Class. > [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > I’ve learned “Seasons” holds a special place in his heart, the rights have been picked up but seem to be in limbo. He never watched NuBSG. And he wasn’t a fan of his Star Trek novels. I loved “Seasons” as well. I think adapting it with anything less than an R rating would take too much out of the story. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-forever-war-has-anybody-read-this/716552/42 "2015-04-09T19:31:25Z")
> [@psiekier](#): > > …It would take a mighty effort in time and/or money to collect, but there’s a graphic adaption of _The Forever War_ by the Belgian illustrator Marvano that appeared in _Heavy Metal_ and (later) _Cheval Noir_. It’s pretty faithful to the original - Haldeman himself liked it - and it is very enjoyable to read… I got the first volume of it through Amazon awhile back, but it’s all in Dutch, I think. Couldn’t find an English translation. Nice artwork, though. > [@psiekier](#): > > …I loved “Seasons” as well. I think adapting it with anything less than an R rating would take too much out of the story. Definitely. ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-forever-war-has-anybody-read-this/716552/43 "2015-04-13T03:50:32Z")
I had a super long & thought out post that got lost when the SDMB signed me out. So, rather than rewrite everything, here’s some final thoughts on the novel now that I’ve read it: 1. In the context of the entire novel, “Hero” seems out of place, given that it introduces a bunch of ideas which are abandoned as the narrative goes on. 2. I thought that Haldeman’s commentary on homosexuality was weird & I don’t really know what to make of it. Perhaps it makes more sense to people who lived through the '70’s. 3. The hard sci-fi stuff (especially the elements dealing with time dilation & relativity) was absolutely fascinating. I could’ve read an entire book based around those ideas (and sans the aforementioned commentary) & been perfectly satisfied. 4. The ending was great. I said a helluva lot more in my original post, but it got lost in the SDMB ether. Oh well, c’est la vie. ---
**Author:** ![psiekier](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psiekier/32/116_2.png) [@psiekier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psiekier)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-forever-war-has-anybody-read-this/716552/44 "2015-04-13T04:32:51Z")
> [@2ManyTacos](#): > > 1. In the context of the entire novel, “Hero” seems out of place, given that it introduces a bunch of ideas which are abandoned as the narrative goes on. Mandella doesn’t want to be a hero. He was conscripted. He’d really rather get out, but where would he go? The ending explains that question, of course! > [@2ManyTacos](#): > > 1. I thought that Haldeman’s commentary on homosexuality was weird & I don’t really know what to make of it. Perhaps it makes more sense to people who lived through the '70’s. I think Haldeman picked homosexuality as something we could all identify, understand, and relate to - whether it’s one’s lifestyle, something merely tolerated, or absolutely revolting - it would be hard to find someone who doesn’t have a fairly strong opinion about it. But if you came back from a tour of duty - be it in The 'Nam or on Charon - and suddenly everybody back home was homosexual except you, you’d feel pretty out of place too, wouldn’t you? > [@2ManyTacos](#): > > 1. The hard sci-fi stuff (especially the elements dealing with time dilation & relativity) was absolutely fascinating. I could’ve read an entire book based around those ideas (and sans the aforementioned commentary) & been perfectly satisfied. Watch _Gunbuster_. If you can make it past the first episode, I bet you will love the hell out of it! > [@2ManyTacos](#): > > 1. The ending was great. If you’re assigned to protect the stasis field, don’t forget your sword! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![psiekier](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psiekier/32/116_2.png) [@psiekier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psiekier)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-forever-war-has-anybody-read-this/716552/45 "2015-04-13T18:40:24Z")
> [@2ManyTacos](#): > > 1. The hard sci-fi stuff (especially the elements dealing with time dilation & relativity) was absolutely fascinating. I could’ve read an entire book based around those ideas (and sans the aforementioned commentary) & been perfectly satisfied. > > > [@psiekier](#): > > > > Watch _Gunbuster_. If you can make it past the first episode, I bet you will love the hell out of it! Here’s a taste. The [First _Gunbuster_ Science Lesson](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dhf799kAUSg) (humourous but informative pieces that come in between the OVA episodes, of which there are six) explains a bit about faster-than-light travel in the universe in which _Gunbuster_ takes place. The “Tannhaeuser Gate” sounds like it functions an awful lot like Haldeman’s “collapsars”, although it’s actually a nod to Roy Batty’s soliloquy in _Blade Runner_. ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-forever-war-has-anybody-read-this/716552/46 "2015-04-13T22:43:30Z")
I read it many years ago. I thought it was okay, but nothing special. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-forever-war-has-anybody-read-this/716552/47 "2015-04-14T01:32:00Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > It’s been years and years, so I’m not sure - I just remember I thought neither sequel was nearly as good as the original. Part of my attitude may be the fact that I discovered _Worlds_ and _Worlds Apart_ ca. 1990, so I got to read them as a single story. (They were published in 1981 and 1983, respectively.) (The cover of my copy of _Worlds_ says “Beginning a major SF trilogy” under the title, and for awhile in that pre-Web era, I searched in vain for the third book, before realizing (a) there wasn’t one, and (b) the story was complete as it was. And after both of those realizations had started to sink in, the third book came out.) And the thing is, \*Worlds Apart \*isn’t a sequel anymore than _Return of the Jedi_ is, because _Worlds_, and _The Empire Strikes Back_, both end at places where the story clearly isn’t, _can’t_ be, at an end - they’re your classic cliffhangers, really. And just like people argue over whether _Jedi_ is a worthy conclusion to the Star Wars trilogy, or a bit of a disappointment, one can argue that _Worlds Apart_ isn’t as strong an ending as _Worlds_ was a beginning. (I’d disagree, but there are viable arguments on both sides.) But it’s not a sequel. _Worlds Enough and Time_, though, damned sure is. The end of \*Worlds Apart \*is the end of the story that started in _Worlds_. The third book may call itself the conclusion of a trilogy, but that’s true in name only. It’s strictly a sequel. For those who haven’t read _Worlds_ etc., one of the reasons I’m so passionate about it is that, at least IMHO, the element of _separation_ that Haldeman uses so well in _The Forever War_ - well, IMHO, he uses it to even greater effect here, even though this time the gulf between the torn-apart lovers is merely space, and not centuries of time, as it was for Mandella and Marygay. But you can read it yourselves, and make up your own minds. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-forever-war-has-anybody-read-this/716552/48 "2015-04-14T17:37:18Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Maybe in later generations, but the first time he went home, his own mother was one of the ones who had “gone gay”. Mom hadn’t gone gay. She’d been conditioned to accept living in very small spaces/shared housing, and later she is the example of the society’s indifference to it’s non-productive members. Or at least, if she was gay I missed it. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-forever-war-has-anybody-read-this/716552/49 "2015-04-14T18:05:01Z")
His mom mentions she has a girlfriend, who has absented herself so as to not make Mandella uncomfortable. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2015, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-forever-war-has-anybody-read-this/716552/50 "2015-04-17T05:00:12Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > …_Forever Peace_ actually _is_ a seque… Actually, it [is NOT a sequel.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Forever_War_series). ---
**Author:** ![psiekier](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psiekier/32/116_2.png) [@psiekier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psiekier)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2015, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-forever-war-has-anybody-read-this/716552/51 "2015-04-17T15:11:46Z")
> [@psiekier](#): > > The part that was excised from the middle - but restored in later editions - involves some side trips that William and Marygay make while on shore leave together on Earth. William interrupts a rape-in-progress while they are in London, and meets Marygay’s parents on an agricultural collective in the American midwest. I seem to recall this piece being available in one of his collections if you got stuck with an edition that leaves it out. Found it! “You Can Never Go Back” appears as part of Haldeman’s _Dealing in Futures_ collection, which also begins with the aforementioned (and quite excellent) short story _Seasons_. > [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > Actually, it [is NOT a sequel.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Forever_War_series). Yep, [we covered that](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=18276761#post18276761). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-forever-war-has-anybody-read-this/716552/52 "2016-05-06T03:51:44Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > You’ve surrounded it with qualifiers that reject obvious other candidates, but I do have to point out that plenty of writers are best or essentially only known for one work, often a short story instead of a novel. _A Canticle for Leibowitz_ comes to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-forever-war-has-anybody-read-this/716552/53 "2016-05-06T19:25:11Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > It should. [Season]'s a masterpiece. I reread it, on the strength of the comments in this thread. I have to say, I don’t get it. Don’t know what it is I can’t see. It’s an OK story, but to me not a masterpiece. It just sort of gives up at the end. Then, in the the epilog, the struggles of the characters gets turned into a movie. How very meta, Mr Author. Seemed like a long way to go just to sort of make a poke at the reader. (And I thought the epilog of All My Sins Remembered was perfect.) I guess I wanted answers, but it wasn’t an answer-giving type of story. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-forever-war-has-anybody-read-this/716552/54 "2016-05-06T20:16:07Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Agreed. Forever War Starship Troopers Enders Game I consider those to be the core books of the military sci-fi “must read” list. I loved all 3, and will re-read at times. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-forever-war-has-anybody-read-this/716552/55 "2016-05-06T20:47:42Z")
FW was largely written as a response to “Starship Troopers”. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-forever-war-has-anybody-read-this/716552/56 "2016-05-06T22:01:24Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > I reread it, on the strength of the comments in this thread. > > I have to say, I don’t get it. Don’t know what it is I can’t see. It’s an OK story, but to me not a masterpiece. It just sort of gives up at the end. Then, in the the epilog, the struggles of the characters gets turned into a movie. How very meta, Mr Author. Seemed like a long way to go just to sort of make a poke at the reader. (And I thought the epilog of All My Sins Remembered was perfect.) > > I guess I wanted answers, but it wasn’t an answer-giving type of story. What wasn’t answered? You know what happened to the crew. And the fate of the planet creatures is their exposure to a superior race sealed their fate one way or another. Which is why in Star Trek they shouldn’t even be using blinds to study people on planets, or surgically altered people to infiltrate. The dangers are too great if it’s the PRIME Directive. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-forever-war-has-anybody-read-this/716552.md?page=2)