# The Freemasons **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 25, 2002, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885 "2002-06-25T15:00:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![PlanMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2bfe46/32.png) [@PlanMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlanMan)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2002, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885/41 "2002-06-27T03:46:05Z")
Well, I know the DeMolay rituals are pretty anti-Pope - the Pope busted the Templars, to get their money is one side of it. The Catholics created the Knights of Columbus to give their men a social club with funny hats. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2002, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885/42 "2002-06-27T04:34:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by happyheathen \* > **then there is the anti-Catholic element of the F&A Masons - The Church responded by ex-communicating anyone who joined the Masons. (They are now on civil terms, but - what was THAT about?)** Also, they just had different mindsets. The Masons were universalist and liberal/rationalist. The Catholic church at the time was pretty much the opposite. Also, there’s always been, in general, a mistrust of secret societies. When you hear about a group with secret rituals or closed meetings, the first thing you think of is “Why are they keeping this so secret. What are they up to?” ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2002, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885/43 "2002-06-27T04:54:59Z")
The DeMolay rituals aren’t anti-Pope. They’re anti-one particular pope. There’s a world of difference between those two. flowers: Sure. Glad you admitted the mistake–that’s cool. Please do more research next time, though, okay? Your attempt at posting “the Mormon perspective” had you posting the perspective of a notorious anti-Mormon. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2002, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885/44 "2002-06-27T04:57:05Z")
p.s. The “masonic” website ain’t. ---
**Author:** ![flowers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4bbf92/32.png) [@flowers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flowers)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2002, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885/45 "2002-06-27T13:48:06Z")
You sit there on your loathesome, spotty behinds, squeezing blackheads, not giving a tinker’s cuss for the struggling artist. You excrement! You whining, hypocritical toadies with your Tony Jackman golf clubs & your bleeding secret masonic handshakes–You wouldn’t let me join, would you? Well, I wouldn’t become a freemason now if you went down on your lousy, stinking knees & begged me! —Monty Python’s Flying Circus ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2002, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885/46 "2002-06-27T23:20:30Z")
Ah. Now I understand. You don’t like golf. \ ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangemind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@Dr.Strangemind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangemind)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885/47 "2002-06-28T04:00:15Z")
There’s a really great show about the Freemasons on the History Channel right now. I’m sure it will be repeted. Dr. Strangemind ---
**Author:** ![caterpillar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aca169/32.png) [@caterpillar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caterpillar)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2002, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885/48 "2002-07-03T20:57:23Z")
I just watched that episode yesterday. Very interesting. Many successful people were masons, like Washington (mentioned above). My boyfriend also watched it later that day, so they must be running it a lot. He is now convinced to become a Mason. I really don’t know about anything a woman can’t join . . . . Oh, and to regress back to the Mormon/Mason connection, I am a bit of a scholar. I live in Utah, under the mormon bubble and have researched a lot of things about that church. I think I know more about mormons now than mormons know about mormons. The rituals were almost identical until they changed it in 1991. Here is a great link comparing the rituals, with illustration. [http://www.mindspring.com/~engineer\_my\_dna/mormon/mansendow.htm](http://www.mindspring.com/~engineer_my_dna/mormon/mansendow.htm) Oh, and Ed Decker did document a lot of his work, but he is a pretty biased person. You have to wade through all the fundamentalist Christian bull to get the the good stuff. As far as I can see there is really no harm in Masons, though he is very biased about it so I wouldn’t read anything by him on the subject. Also anyone in Utah, this week’s Salt Lake City Weekly has an article on the subject. Maybe I’ll have to read it and get back to you all. ---
**Author:** ![zen101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c68b51/32.png) [@zen101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zen101)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2002, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885/49 "2002-07-03T21:50:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*I am not a fool. \*\* Can we get a link for this? I really need a cite before I’m going to accept this information as stated. 😉 If there isn’t a link to prove something it must be untrue. ---
**Author:** ![caterpillar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aca169/32.png) [@caterpillar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caterpillar)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2002, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885/50 "2002-07-16T01:12:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Captain Amazing \* > \*\*I’m not exactly sure…I think the Deckers are non-denominational fundementalist Christianity. I know they’re really active in trying to convert Mormons (they have an organization “Saints Alive in Jesus”) I’m also pretty sure that, even among anti-Mormon groups, Decker isn’t that well respected. He makes pretty obvious errors and misstatements about Mormonism, and a lot of the other anti-Mormon groups consider him an embarrassment to them. \*\* Yeah, I reread the first chapter of a book of his that I own, (big mistake to buy, and a waste of money). I forgot how far this guy goes on the idiot parade. He seems to have merely jumped from one bandwagon to the next and he is ALWAYS right, right? It’s pretty frustrating. I would reccommend NOT reading ANYTHING written by this guy, with a serious axe to grind, or something. I remember wanting to write him a nasty letter when I read his stuff, but never did . … . I don’t belong to the mormon creed, but his “out there” accusations really made me want to defend them. Go to the damn library if you want to read about masons, but for hell’s sake, don’t read anything about them by Ed Decker, because they are obviously from the devil! Oh, and for 9.95, he’ll save your soul! Hallelujah! ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2002, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885/51 "2002-07-16T03:44:09Z")
Sara: Decker is worthless as a source of reliable information. If you’re interested in really researching, check out what reputable sources have had to say about his glurge. ---
**Author:** ![caterpillar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aca169/32.png) [@caterpillar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caterpillar)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2002, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885/52 "2002-07-16T20:28:13Z")
Glad we concur. But you don’t need to tell me that, I made the mistake. I don’t care what decker thinks about cults, masons, mormons, pagans or whatever is different from him (which to him is obviously a bad thing). Go to google or any search engine, or a library card catalog and look under masons and you’ll find reliable sources, I guarantee it. Just wade through the muck. All I am saying is whatever you do, don’t go to [amazon.com](http://amazon.com) and buy ANYTHING written by this guy, as was reccommended in post before. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2002, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885/53 "2002-07-16T22:02:48Z")
I have a much better idea, sara. Since I’m related to Masons and am a member of DeMolay, I’ll go by the reality in front of me instead of what somebody with an agenda (Decker and so many of those webpage authors) tells me about my relations and me. Reality, the anti-well…you know. ---
**Author:** ![caterpillar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aca169/32.png) [@caterpillar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caterpillar)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2002, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885/54 "2002-07-17T01:57:45Z")
What about those who aren’t or can’t be in your position? Where are they to go for answers about masons? Why so offensed? I am only agreeing with you. ---
**Author:** ![caterpillar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aca169/32.png) [@caterpillar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caterpillar)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2002, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885/55 "2002-07-17T01:59:54Z")
What about those who aren’t or can’t be in your position? Where are they to go for answers about masons? Why so offensive? I am only agreeing with you. We both agree on a non-reliable source, so, now, what is reliable? ---
**Author:** ![caterpillar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aca169/32.png) [@caterpillar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caterpillar)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2002, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885/56 "2002-07-17T02:01:06Z")
What about those who aren’t or can’t be in your position? Where are they to go for answers about masons? Why so offended? I am only agreeing with you. We both agree on a non-reliable source, so, now, what is reliable? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2002, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885/57 "2002-07-17T02:37:05Z")
I’m not offended by your posts, sara. I’m offended by the vast majority of the glurge-driven websites a la Decker & Tanner. I thought I’d made that clear; guess not. ---
**Author:** ![zen101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c68b51/32.png) [@zen101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zen101)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2002, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885/58 "2002-07-17T04:27:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*I have a much better idea, sara. Since I’m related to Masons and am a member of DeMolay, I’ll go by the reality in front of me instead of what somebody with an agenda (Decker and so many of those webpage authors) tells me about my relations and me. > > Reality, the anti-well…you know. \*\* I question anyone who says they don’t have an agenda unless they are a cyborg brain. Your very relation to masons will have shaded your perceptions of reality. Any interaction with a Mason at all has the possibility of jaundicing an opinion, let alone an actual relationship. This isn’t to say Decker is slant-free, but who is? Everything when it comes to human motives or the motives or organisations of humans is opinion. Also just because someone is wrong or obviously opinionated about most things does not make them wrong about everything. If I were to refute that the Masons had ver been involved with anything shady as a matter of routine then in short order people would begin to regard me as at best a shill for the order and at worst an idiot. Good people can join bad organisations and vice versa. After his death I learned that my grandfather had been a member of the KKK, as had his father before him. I never saw this side of either of them (admittedly my great grandfather died when I was quite young), but this new information didn’t cause me to re-evaluate the KKK or to begin defending them. I just htink you are making a lbunder in claiming to have access to “the straight dope” via a relation to a Mason. As if a Mason would have no personal agenda in describing the sect. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2002, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885/59 "2002-07-17T06:09:04Z")
That’s the biggest load of malarkey I’ve read in ages, zen. ---
**Author:** ![zen101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c68b51/32.png) [@zen101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zen101)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2002, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885/60 "2002-07-17T09:46:43Z")
That too is opinion. At least I don’t peddle mine as though it was distilled essence of fact. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885.md?page=4)