# The Freemasons **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 25, 2002, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885 "2002-06-25T15:00:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2002, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885/61 "2002-07-17T15:20:01Z")
NO, you peddle the opinions of those who’ve been discredited as though that’s fact. That’s beyond mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![caterpillar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aca169/32.png) [@caterpillar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caterpillar)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2002, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885/62 "2002-07-17T20:44:58Z")
OOPs sorry about my repeated posts. I was rewording things, it just didn’t sound right, I didn’t know it had sent them. See the thing with decker is that he has the right wing fundamentalist christian attitude behind him. In what I have seen him mentioned he says that the mormons and the masons came from the devil! Now is this really legit info? He also thinks that the masons are bad because they let anyone who believes in any kind of god in. He associates the word “pagan” with his idea of “satanists” and therefore if masons let in pagans, they must be satanists! This line of logic sounds like something that should be preached in a tent, not in a book that claims to bring information on Masons. As for getting information from Masons themselves, who the hell else are we supposed to get it from? Decker has an axe to grind against masons, thus making him a bad source. Skipping such sources and going directly to the people who know the truth would be the logical choice, if it’s there. What kind of shady things do you think the masons are involved in, zen? Aside from the murder of (what was the name. . . . Brewster?) 100+ years ago I can see nothing. Isn’t it an organisation committed to “taking good men and making them better”? This is nothing like the KKK, don’t even get me started on them! Maybe I had better consult a Mason on this. ---
**Author:** ![zen101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c68b51/32.png) [@zen101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zen101)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2002, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885/63 "2002-07-18T04:27:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*NO, you peddle the opinions of those who’ve been discredited as though that’s fact. That’s beyond mistaken. \*\* Cite? I haven’t chimed in on this topic with anyone’s opinions or references so I suppose I’ll need to ask you for a cite to back up your statement. ---
**Author:** ![Eternal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@Eternal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eternal)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2002, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885/64 "2002-07-18T07:48:54Z")
I gots yo back, **zen**. This “ **Monty** ” be MAD biased. ---
**Author:** ![zen101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c68b51/32.png) [@zen101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zen101)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2002, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885/65 "2002-07-19T05:16:10Z")
Monty: Are you combing my entire post history or were you just planning on dropping an accusation without backing it up as requested? You like to ask for a cite but balk when asked yourself. You claim that it’s poppycock to suggest that being related to a Freemaso may colour one’s perceptions of the organization. Finally, you accuse someone of foisting the unsubstantiated opinions of others within his posts but fail to cite, when requested to do so, said posts. For a user who comes of as high handed as you often do this is simply bad form. ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2002, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885/66 "2002-07-19T12:44:56Z")
Well I AM a mason (English Rite & Temple), although utterly uninvolved (my Father signed me up when I was 18 (called a “Lewis”), and I went along with it until he died to keep him happy, but its not really for me. It is farcical to refer to the Masons as a secret society when they have one of the biggest buildings in London’s west end quite clealy marked "Freemasons Headquarters. (Its in Great Queen St in Covent Garden and has a museum if you really really really want to see old aprons and banners). Picture here: [http://www.geocities.com/andrewmb.geo/page4.html](http://www.geocities.com/andrewmb.geo/page4.html) They are more accurately a society with secrets (none of which are particularly earth shattering). The reason my father belonged and was active was that as an army officer he was in an environment where everything was constrained by his rank, wheras in the lodge they were all equals (there is a heirarchy but nothing like the army). I found it to be boring and fuddy-duddy and not my cup of tea. It’ll be right up your street if you like golf clubs and sales conferences. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2002, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885/67 "2002-07-19T15:03:10Z")
zen: You must’ve been making a different point in your mind than what you really were making with the post I labeled as malarkey. That’s a cite, btw–the posting of yours I labeled as malarkey. ---
**Author:** ![caterpillar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aca169/32.png) [@caterpillar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caterpillar)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2002, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885/68 "2002-07-19T15:30:45Z")
Here’s a link, you all might find interesting, since your reading this thread and all. It’s a newspaper article about masons. It’s pretty detailed and might answer a lot of questions. WITH PICTURES! [http://slweekly.com/editorial/2002/feat\_2002-06-20.cfm](http://slweekly.com/editorial/2002/feat_2002-06-20.cfm) For those who think masons might be biased it’s written by an outside source. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2002, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885/69 "2002-07-19T20:48:42Z")
BTW, zen, what’s with the trolling here? ---
**Author:** ![zen101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c68b51/32.png) [@zen101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zen101)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2002, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885/70 "2002-07-19T21:21:20Z")
I’m not trolling by definition but reading and requestion for clarity’s sake. But if you insists that an assertation that -being related to a someone does affect your opinion of any group that relative may belong to- is ridiculous I doubt both your sanity genuing acumen. You see any relationship, even between observer and observed has impact of the perceptions of both parties. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885/71 "2002-07-21T00:19:07Z")
First off: Eternal - You wouldn’t happen to have any actual contribution to make besides calling me biased on the say so of someone else. I would call that particular course of action foolish. But whatever course you decide to follow is up to you. Next: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zen101 \* > I’m not trolling by definition but reading and requestion for clarity’s sake. I doubt that seriously. Let’s hit the points in order: [ul]You made this comment out of the blue: > [@](#): > > Can we get a link for this? I really need a cite before I’m going to accept this information as stated. > > If there isn’t a link to prove something it must be untrue. In which you basically called me a fool and a liar. Next: > [@](#): > > I question anyone who says they don’t have an agenda unless they are a cyborg brain. Your very relation to masons will have shaded your perceptions of reality. Followed by a lame comment about a possibility. Got news for you, skippy. I recognize that a possibility exists and unlike you have managed to go with the actual evidence in front of me instead of the actually biased “information” bandied about. > [@](#): > > But if you insists that an assertation that -being related to a someone does affect your opinion of any group that relative may belong to- is ridiculous I doubt both your sanity genuing acumen. I doubt your honesty with this comment. First off, my assertion was that I was observing those I knew (my relations) and knew from that observation that certain things bandied around about the Masons aren’t true. My opinion of the group is based on evidence. You should try that sometime instead of pretending that a possibility is an actuality. > [@](#): > > You see any relationship, even between observer and observed has impact of the perceptions of both parties. Yeah; you’re posting malarkey and I’m responding to it. Classic troll and response to same.[/ul] ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885/72 "2002-07-21T00:43:56Z")
I’m too old and tired to slog through this whole mess. What, if any, General Question is on the table right now? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Broken\_Column](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9bd4f/32.png) [@The\_Broken\_Column](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Broken_Column)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2004, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885/73 "2004-02-14T06:09:15Z")
Rather than read the whole thread I rather will just explain the basics of the history of Masonry as I have come to learn it through my researching. I’ll go somewhat chronologically. Masonry began who knows when, but obviously existed by the 1300s AD, and possibly as far back as 926 AD with the York Constitution from King Athelstan. From what I’ve read, it is pretty conclusive that Templars did become Masons, though the extent of their influence is unknown. The Saint Clair (Now Sinclair) family in Scottland was an example of both Templar and Masonic membership, and it is from this family that Masonry did infact become more Speculative. The last known opperative Masons to build any structure were the architect of the edifice and his son which completed the Saint Paul’s Cathedral in London in the later 1400s. In the 1600s England broke into Civil War, where most Freemasons supported the Monarchy. Afterwards followed the Jacobite rebellions which there were many Jacobite Freemasons attempting to restore the Stuarts to the Crown. They lost and the result of the Grand Lodge of England was an attempt to end the Jacobite influence in Masonry. This accounts for the practice of no discussions of religion or politics in the lodges. The Jacobites were supported by anti-English, Scotts and Irish. This resulted in a distrust of the Mother Grand Lodge thus you have another Grand Lodge, that of Ireland. The Lodges under that jurisdiction go by “Antient Free and Accepted Masons” if you Masons ever wonder why some lodges are that title and others just F&AM. Certain lodes in the New England area hold those AF&AM names because they were first created under the GLoI during the era of division. Eventually that division closed. But its mark was left in the sense of a compromise. The GLoI taught all 4 degrees of Masonry. For symbolic purposes the GLoE only wanted to teach the 3 degrees as a part of the Blue lodge. The compromise was that the 4th Degree became the first part (Mark Master) of the York Rite and resulted in the 3 degrees as we know them with the 4th in the York and now in the Scottish Rites. The height of Masonry was right after WW2 when its membership was drastically increased, this is why Masonry is seemingly “fading away”. It’s not, it is returning to pre-WW2 membership percentages (based on population). If anyone wants to add, clarify, or correct any of the above points please do. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2004, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885/74 "2004-02-14T14:26:54Z")
Since there’s a new [thread on this topic](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=161119), I’ll close this old one. bibliophage moderator GQ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-freemasons/115885.md?page=3)