# The frequently-used "Blacks kill blacks, and it's overlooked" argument (Black Lives Matter) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 12, 2016, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-frequently-used-blacks-kill-blacks-and-its-overlooked-argument-black-lives-matter/759713 "2016-07-12T07:57:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2016, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-frequently-used-blacks-kill-blacks-and-its-overlooked-argument-black-lives-matter/759713/61 "2016-07-13T18:11:01Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > There’s a key difference between curing shark attacks and curing cancer. > > And, indeed, a key difference between the two cases you mention. Press coverage and political attention is necessary to effect a change in policing training, standards, and internal reviews of police shootings. > > There is comparatively less value in demanding media and political condemnation of black-on-black street crime, because black-on-black street crime is already illegal, and already condemned, genuinely, by the government and society actors involved here. I honestly feel that that circle the wagons mentality is what causes people to fear the police. If the police were actively policing themselves and calling out the ones who are known bad cases or do bad things then trust would again begin to develop. But they don’t, it’s all about protecting that shield. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2016, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-frequently-used-blacks-kill-blacks-and-its-overlooked-argument-black-lives-matter/759713/62 "2016-07-13T18:28:19Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > I think we’re sort of saying the same thing here. You’re putting “system” in quotes, like you think I’m suggesting a massive conspiracy. But I’m not. I’m using it just to describe the complex assemblage of law and culture and practice that is criminal justice. And, yes, we’re all probably a bit racist, and that racism will show up in various places if we don’t have really good > [@Kobal2](#): > > The problem is not that the cops are racist. Well, I’m sure a bunch of 'em are, but that’s not the point. The problem is one of systemic bias and flawed assumptions, which is driven by a million little things woven into the very fabric of society. And it’s not just affecting the cops. As I said earlier, unless you know of any laws, rules, or directives which are targeted to a race, the “systemic” bias is not part of a “system”, it’s just low-grade racism permeated through society. There’s no advantage to calling it an issue of the system, because _what are you going to change if there’s nothing built into the system that targets any one group?_ All you can change, in a system, is its rules. There are no rules that are discriminatory. That’s already against the law. If you want to attack the system, that is going to fail. The legality of racism is already determined and it’s been put to pasture. There’s no more you can do from a legal, rule, or directive level. You have to change people. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2016, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-frequently-used-blacks-kill-blacks-and-its-overlooked-argument-black-lives-matter/759713/63 "2016-07-13T18:32:00Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > ISTM that illegal police shootings are illegal as well. See the example **iamthewalrus(:3=** mentions of Michael Slager, who shot someone and is now charged with murder. If political and media pressure are ineffective in cases where the action is already illegal, it would have been ineffective to get Slager charged. If they are effective, then they would be effective against black-on-black crime, which is also already illegal. The question is not whether it’s illegal to murder someone. The question is how the investigation proceeds, and whether the murderers are punished. When someone who’s not a police officer kills someone (or is suspected of doing so), the police separate all the witnesses immediately and interrogate them. They examine other evidence separately, and will use any discrepancy to threaten obstruction of justice and impeach the witness. When the police shoot someone, well, here’s how Dallas, which has been in the news recently as a model of good community policing, [investigates its officers](http://www.dallasnews.com/news/metro/20131127-chief-david-brown-quietly-changes-a-police-shooting-investigations-policy.ece): > [@The Dallas Morning News](#): > > Any Dallas officer involved in a police shooting — whether the officer fired a weapon or witnessed the gunfire — will now have the right to remain silent for 72 hours under a new department policy. > > And even before they give a statement about the shooting, the officers can watch any available video before they give a statement. > > Chief David Brown quietly made major policy change less than a month after surveillance video went public in October that showed an officer shooting a mentally ill man for no apparent reason — contrary to a witnessing officer’s account that led to a felony charge against the victim. So, yeah. Now, we sometimes have video evidence that demonstrates that the police are lying about their actions, and the actions of their colleagues. Suggesting that the system works in the few cases where we have actual video evidence of murder is bullshit. We somehow manage to convict other murderers without direct video evidence. And we do it because we don’t take their word for it, or the word of their buddies, and because we don’t let them review all the evidence against them before letting them fabricate an explanation. And, of course, they’re deliberately [destroying and disabling the video cameras they’re supposed to carry.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2016/01/29/80-percent-of-chicago-pd-dash-cam-videos-are-missing-audio-due-to-officer-error-or-intentional-destruction/) At least we’re getting more video of police encounters from citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2016, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-frequently-used-blacks-kill-blacks-and-its-overlooked-argument-black-lives-matter/759713/64 "2016-07-13T18:56:52Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > The question is not whether it’s illegal to murder someone. The question is how the investigation proceeds, and whether the murderers are punished. **Bricker** appeared to be arguing that press attention and political pressure are ineffective in addressing the problem of black-on-black crime. Therefore BLM and similar groups are wasting their time when they engage in protests or marches or other forms of activism against the problem of black-on-black crime. Do you agree? Or do you think that political pressure could affect how black-on-black crime is investigated, and whether the black murderers are punished? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2016, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-frequently-used-blacks-kill-blacks-and-its-overlooked-argument-black-lives-matter/759713/65 "2016-07-13T19:05:57Z")
Wow, the BLM are silent about this because they are a disaffected, marginalized population. The are social marginalized through endemic racism. Our society places massive barriers to their ability to succeed while singling them out with a significantly harsher application of the law while also restricting their access to that same law. The argument made in the OP is purely an argument to self justify a position of privilege and bigotry. They are making an extraordinary claim, that the flawed concept of “race” has any intrinsic meaning. The ground is not perfectly shaped to fit a puddle, the water flows into the structure that exists. Even if you ignore the fact that they are making causal relationship based on a nonexistent property which is purely a human construct (race). They are ignoring the fact that a huge reason a real societal stratification exists is due to the policies that were enacted and are applied due to that same false premise. They are [Begging the Question](http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/begging-the-question.html) They are directly targeting this issue; systemic racism leads to a higher percentage of black individuals being forced out of the job market and justice system. It does not matter what the arbitrary grouping a society decides to use. This would happen to any group you subject to a higher arrest and conviction rate, and a fear of the police, and limited educational/economic opportunity. This is true in the UK which just chose to secede from the EU in large part due to bigotry that resulted in similar issues with [polish people](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2614279/Poland-tops-league-foreign-inmates-UK-jails-ahead-Ireland-Jamaica.html). And it happened in this country with the [Irish in the 1800s.](http://www.history.com/news/history-lists/7-infamous-gangs-of-new-york) If you oppress an arbitrary group and exclude them from the legal system, a small minority of that arbitrary group will use extra-legal means to address disputes. I am betting anyone whom makes an argument like in the OP has never even bothered to look into what BLM is fighting for and is operating on their own biases to define the movement. [http://blacklivesmatter.com/guiding-principles/](http://blacklivesmatter.com/guiding-principles/) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2016, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-frequently-used-blacks-kill-blacks-and-its-overlooked-argument-black-lives-matter/759713/66 "2016-07-13T19:06:01Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You demonstrate my point. The later video is not necessary to establish the presence of a gun. That Rice had a gun was reported, earlier video showed Rice waving the gun around, the person who called 911 reported the gun, the gun was found on the scene, and the later video shows the cop kicking the gun away after Rice drew it. > > You further demonstrate the limitations of video - the refusal to believe in anything else. > > ‘I don’t see the gun on the video, so the cops were lying.’ > > ‘You don’t have to see the gun on the video to know that a gun was there. You can see it on earlier video, the person who called 911 said she saw the gun, the gun was found, you can see the cop kicking the gun away, his mother said he had a gun.’ > > ‘But I don’t see it on the video, so the cops were lying.’ > > _:shrugs:_ > > Regards, > Shodan The contradiction between the officers’ report and the video wasn’t about the gun – it was about the timing: Officer Loehmann said in his report that he shouted at Rice three times to show his hands as Rice was approaching the car – the video shows that this is impossible, since he shot Rice less than 2 seconds after leaving the car (before the car had even fully stopped). My point about the gun was just that you were wrong in saying that the video showed the gun in the boy’s waistband, or the boy reaching for it – the video showed no such thing. Looking back, you didn’t specifically say that the video showed the gun in his waistband, or him reaching for it, so perhaps I misread it. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2016, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-frequently-used-blacks-kill-blacks-and-its-overlooked-argument-black-lives-matter/759713/67 "2016-07-13T19:18:09Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > As I said earlier, unless you know of any laws, rules, or directives which are targeted to a race, the “systemic” bias is not part of a “system”, it’s just low-grade racism permeated through society. There’s no advantage to calling it an issue of the system, because _what are you going to change if there’s nothing built into the system that targets any one group?_ All you can change, in a system, is its rules. There are no rules that are discriminatory. That’s already against the law. > > If you want to attack the system, that is going to fail. The legality of racism is already determined and it’s been put to pasture. There’s no more you can do from a legal, rule, or directive level. **You have to change people**. (emphasis mine) Which is what movements like BLM are ultimately about. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2016, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-frequently-used-blacks-kill-blacks-and-its-overlooked-argument-black-lives-matter/759713/68 "2016-07-13T19:23:31Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > **Bricker** appeared to be arguing that press attention and political pressure are ineffective in addressing the problem of black-on-black crime. Therefore BLM and similar groups are wasting their time when they engage in protests or marches or other forms of activism against the problem of black-on-black crime. Do you agree? > > Or do you think that political pressure could affect how black-on-black crime is investigated, and whether the black murderers are punished? > > Regards, > Shodan I know I am preaching to the choir here but Bricker needs to explain why press attention and political pressure will not help address polices which have excluded the black population from access to the legal system. Unless he is making a claim that black people are “prone to criminality” due to something that is not due to the systemic oppression. I would be interested in hearing an argument to support that precept that does not tread dangerously towards a claim based on the discredited concept of “race”. I have personally not seen any non-racial based argument that “Black-on-black crime” is anything but a symptom of broader structural inequalities. If Bricker is not making that claim than I would also be interested in what alternatives for action there are for this disenfranchised population. I assume someone will resort to the model minority myth, but that is just another form of oppression and is a status change that is not afforded to marginalized groups by themselves. While it is also dependent on a claim of race being something more than a human construct. I would also like some cite that demonstrates a group gaining more equality within our system without resorting to press attention and political pressure. My memory of our history may be flawed but granting rights without political action is something that I am unaware of ever happening. Especially when the legal system is biased against said group. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2016, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-frequently-used-blacks-kill-blacks-and-its-overlooked-argument-black-lives-matter/759713/69 "2016-07-13T19:33:20Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > An interesting bit of information. > > Between 2004 and 2013, 565 police were killed feloniously, according to the F.B.I. > > 289 were killed by whites. > > 243 were killed by blacks. > > 33 were killed by Asians/American Indians/Alaska Natives or not reported. > > [Cite](https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/leoka/2013/tables/table_44_leos_fk_race_and_sex_of_known_offender_2004-2013.xls). > > Blacks make up roughly 12% of the population yet account for 41% of the police who were killed. Whites make up roughly 62% of the population but account for 51% percent of the police who were killed. > > Blacks killed 289 police. If blacks killed police at a rate proportional to their population percentage, we would expect the number to be ~68. Instead the number is ~4.25 times higher than what one would expect. > > That, it seems to me, points to a much deeper problem than ‘it is the racist cops!’. > > Slee If a group of people is known to shoot more cops than other populations than it would make sense for all cops who don’t want to get shot to treat that population as more of a threat. If the problem is not that cops hate black people but that cops are justifiably more afraid of black people than the any movement such as BLM that justifies resistance toward cops is just going to make things worse. However, a movement that tries to address violence in the black community will make blacks safer from the police as well as from each other. Which is causing the problem cops attitude toward blacks or blacks attitude toward cops? There have already been data that shows cops disproportionately shoot cops and data that shows cops do not disproportionately shoot black people. That makes it seem to me that the tactics cops use toward black suspects are working, but that more needs to be done to change black people’s attitude toward cops. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2016, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-frequently-used-blacks-kill-blacks-and-its-overlooked-argument-black-lives-matter/759713/70 "2016-07-13T20:15:49Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > If a group of people is known to shoot more cops than other populations than it would make sense for all cops who don’t want to get shot to treat that population as more of a threat. > If the problem is not that cops hate black people but that cops are justifiably more afraid of black people than the any movement such as BLM that justifies resistance toward cops is just going to make things worse. However, a movement that tries to address violence in the black community will make blacks safer from the police as well as from each other. > Which is causing the problem cops attitude toward blacks or blacks attitude toward cops? There have already been data that shows cops disproportionately shoot cops and data that shows cops do not disproportionately shoot black people. That makes it seem to me that the tactics cops use toward black suspects are working, but that more needs to be done to change black people’s attitude toward cops. You are begging the question. [http://www.naacp.org/pages/criminal-justice-fact-sheet](http://www.naacp.org/pages/criminal-justice-fact-sheet) [ul] About 14 million Whites and 2.6 million African Americans report using an illicit drug 5 times as many Whites are using drugs as African Americans, yet African Americans are sent to prison for drug offenses at 10 times the rate of Whites [li]African Americans represent 12% of the total population of drug users, but 38% of those arrested for drug offenses, and 59% of those in state prison for a drug offense.[/li][li]African Americans serve virtually as much time in prison for a drug offense (58.7 months) as whites do for a violent offense (61.7 months). (Sentencing Project)[/li][/ul] Black Americans are very justified in not trusting the legal system as it is biased against them. The oppression that they are suffering do to an inequitable application of justice is the driving factor. It is absurd for you to place blame on those being oppressed. Without an uprising they are not the ones with the power to change the system. Your argument is purely victim blaming. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2016, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-frequently-used-blacks-kill-blacks-and-its-overlooked-argument-black-lives-matter/759713/71 "2016-07-13T20:35:20Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Black Americans are very justified in not trusting the legal system as it is biased against them. The oppression that they are suffering do to an inequitable application of justice is the driving factor. > > I. The Justice system is pretty fair. What isnt fair is the social system, where Blacks are trapped in a cycle of living in crime ridden areas as they are poor, and being poor as they as trapped in those areas. Thus Blacks commit more crimes. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2016, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-frequently-used-blacks-kill-blacks-and-its-overlooked-argument-black-lives-matter/759713/72 "2016-07-13T20:49:21Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The Justice system is pretty fair. What isnt fair is the social system, where Blacks are trapped in a cycle of living in crime ridden areas as they are poor, and being poor as they as trapped in those areas. Thus Blacks commit more crimes. My cite does not align with your claim so please bring a cite. Statistics show that black American’s arrest rate for the same crime exceeds their portion of offenders and that they are more likely to be convicted and that they serve longer sentences. Or are we just using different definitions for “fair” From my previous link: [http://www.naacp.org/pages/criminal-justice-fact-sheet](http://www.naacp.org/pages/criminal-justice-fact-sheet) [ul] 5 times as many Whites are using drugs as African Americans, yet African Americans are sent to prison for drug offenses at 10 times the rate of Whites [li]African Americans represent 12% of the total population of drug users, but 38% of those arrested for drug offenses, and 59% of those in state prison for a drug offense.[/li][li]African Americans serve virtually as much time in prison for a drug offense (58.7 months) as whites do for a violent offense (61.7 months). (Sentencing Project)[/ul][/li] To but it another way, 500% more whites commit drug offenses yet 1000% more blacks are convicted. Blacks are only 12% of the population but suffer 38% of arrests for those crimes and 59% of the prison population for those crimes is black. Blacks serve similar terms for non-violent drug offenses as whites serve for violent crimes. I find your claim that the justice system is **“pretty fair”** as absurd and fanciful. The data shows that Black Americans are arrested, convicted and sentenced at an embarrassingly higher rate than whites. Justify the reality that you hand wave away that fact. Provide a cite or concede your claim is baseless and invalid. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2016, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-frequently-used-blacks-kill-blacks-and-its-overlooked-argument-black-lives-matter/759713/73 "2016-07-13T21:06:53Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Provide a cite or concede your claim is baseless and invalid. I dont debate with people who make demands. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2016, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-frequently-used-blacks-kill-blacks-and-its-overlooked-argument-black-lives-matter/759713/74 "2016-07-13T21:10:32Z")
It should also be noted that that 28.5 percent of black males will likely serve time in a state or federal prison for a felony conviction, a rate seven times that for white males. This extreme inequity in conviction rates helps create a permanent underclass; a population that has lost their voting rights as which will not qualify for most employment. In Florida 31%, Alabama 29% and 25% of otherwise eligible black men cannot vote let alone qualify for most jobs that would allow them to gain economic stability. The fact that non-violent drug-related sentences falling disproportionately on blacks helps perpetuate this cycle of poverty. These fellow Americans and fellow human beings are locked into poverty because of institutional racism, not because they are poor. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2016, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-frequently-used-blacks-kill-blacks-and-its-overlooked-argument-black-lives-matter/759713/75 "2016-07-13T21:13:17Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I dont debate with people who make demands. :rolleyes: If you just make unsubstantiated non-factual claims that border on absurd you don’t debate, you opine. So there is no great loss. But note that others will take your diversion as a concession that there is no basis in fact for your unsubstantiated claims. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2016, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-frequently-used-blacks-kill-blacks-and-its-overlooked-argument-black-lives-matter/759713/76 "2016-07-13T21:29:49Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > **Bricker** appeared to be arguing that press attention and political pressure are ineffective in addressing the problem of black-on-black crime. Therefore BLM and similar groups are wasting their time when they engage in protests or marches or other forms of activism against the problem of black-on-black crime. Do you agree? No, I don’t think that’s what he was arguing. He was arguing that political pressure is less necessary because black on black crime is already effectively addressed > [@Bricker](#): > > There is comparatively less value in demanding media and political condemnation of black-on-black street crime, because black-on-black street crime is already illegal, and already condemned, genuinely, by the government and society actors involved here. Which is again why BLM is concerned with police violence against black people, because that violence is not appropriately addressed by the criminal justice system. As far as I can tell, **Bricker** and I are in agreement on this. > [@](#): > > Or do you think that political pressure could affect how black-on-black crime is investigated, and whether the black murderers are punished? Could it affect it? Sure. Is there a pressing need to do so? I don’t see one. I’m open to arguments that there is, although I’m really not sure I understand your point here. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2016, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-frequently-used-blacks-kill-blacks-and-its-overlooked-argument-black-lives-matter/759713/77 "2016-07-13T21:33:08Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > (emphasis mine) Which is what movements like BLM are ultimately about. I made no arguments against BLM. I was addressing specific posters on the SDMB about specific terminology that they used. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2016, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-frequently-used-blacks-kill-blacks-and-its-overlooked-argument-black-lives-matter/759713/78 "2016-07-13T21:33:18Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The Justice system is pretty fair. The justice system is particularly unfair in the case where a crime is committed by a law enforcement officer against someone else. In such a case, it is incredibly unlikely that the LEO is punished, or that the victim is made whole. In fact, generally the victim is punished further by the justice system, since the LEO (and potentially his colleagues) will fabricate a story in which the victim is the perpetrator of a crime, and the LEO the victim. This injustice, which is disproportionately borne by black people, is what BLM protests are about. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2016, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-frequently-used-blacks-kill-blacks-and-its-overlooked-argument-black-lives-matter/759713/79 "2016-07-13T22:41:44Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > I know I am preaching to the choir here but Bricker needs to explain why press attention and political pressure will not help address polices which have excluded the black population from access to the legal system. > > Unless he is making a claim that black people are “prone to criminality” due to something that is not due to the systemic oppression. > > I would be interested in hearing an argument to support that precept that does not tread dangerously towards a claim based on the discredited concept of “race”. I have personally not seen any non-racial based argument that “Black-on-black crime” is anything but a symptom of broader structural inequalities. Please read what I wrote again: > [@Bricker](#): > > Press coverage and political attention is necessary to effect a change in policing training, standards, and internal reviews of police shootings. > > There is comparatively less value in demanding media and political condemnation of black-on-black street crime, because black-on-black street crime is already illegal, and already condemned, genuinely, by the government and society actors involved here. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2016, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-frequently-used-blacks-kill-blacks-and-its-overlooked-argument-black-lives-matter/759713/80 "2016-07-14T01:07:04Z")
I think some do have a point that it is kind of a deflection; there indeed does seem to be a few too many white trash types who join the force, don’t really care about the law, and want an easy pension. Some of them don’t wanna address that. However, perhaps what the people who mention black/black crime are more trying to say is that the black community is overrepresented in crime; that there is a behavior problem in that community. Both are true; the police need to hire better people, but also, the blacks need more figures with Cosby’s message that more young blacks need to study hard and pull their pants up (of course tho not with Cosby’s alleged conduct); Cosby’s old message doesn’t seem like it would’ve approved of some of the extreme tactics of BLM. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-frequently-used-blacks-kill-blacks-and-its-overlooked-argument-black-lives-matter/759713.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-frequently-used-blacks-kill-blacks-and-its-overlooked-argument-black-lives-matter/759713.md?page=5)