# The Fucking United Nations ENDORSES terrorism **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 16, 2002, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fucking-united-nations-endorses-terrorism/104027 "2002-04-16T22:28:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2002, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fucking-united-nations-endorses-terrorism/104027/1 "2002-04-16T22:28:25Z")
And, fucking Austria, Belgium, France, Portugal, Spain and Sweden all voted that way. Italy abstained. > [@](#): > > **UN backs Palestinian violence** > > UNITED NATIONS - Six European Union countries yesterday endorsed a United Nations document that condones violence as a way to achieve Palestinian statehood. > > They were voting as members of the UN Human Rights Commission on a resolution that accuses Israel of a long list of human rights violations, but makes no mention of suicide bombings of Israeli civilians… [http://www.nationalpost.com/home/story.html?f=/stories/20020416/652511.html](http://www.nationalpost.com/home/story.html?f=/stories/20020416/652511.html) Some on this UN panel explained that they were endorsing violence, but not terrorism. Since Palestinian violence has mostly been in the form of terrorism, this distinction seems a tad disingenuous. In any event, what the fuck is the United Nations doing endorsing violence? I am speechless.:mad: ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2002, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fucking-united-nations-endorses-terrorism/104027/2 "2002-04-16T22:40:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\* > In any event, what the fuck is the United Nations doing endorsing violence? > > I am speechless.:mad: \*\* Just more evidence of why the United Nations shouldn’t be taken seriously. With a stance like that is it any wonder Israel doesn’t want the UN protecting them? Marc ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2002, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fucking-united-nations-endorses-terrorism/104027/3 "2002-04-16T22:42:03Z")
I am more than a little disappointed that our friend **December** can’t, or doesn’t want to, tell the difference between the United Nation’s and its no-authority, window dressing only, third world dominated and anti-western civil rights club. It my well be that some European nations wanted to send Israel a message about the occupied territories (the same message the last three, or four or five, US administrations have been sending), but our friend’s implication that this was a vote of the Security Counsel or the General Assembly is both dishonest and disingenuous. ---
**Author:** ![Hemlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Hemlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hemlock)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fucking-united-nations-endorses-terrorism/104027/4 "2002-04-17T01:27:47Z")
The UN Human Rights Commission should more accurately be called the UN Vacuous Gesture Commission. Barely worthy of attention. It’s used to send messages and give countries a poke in the ribs. EG, China (which co-sponsored this resolution with Cuba and Vietnam) is constantly running around cajoling and bribing countries into voting down resolutions criticizing its human rights record. This is a way for them to get their own back and irritate the West - and split the West, too. The wording was effective in dividing France, Belgium and other rabble from the US, UK, Canada, Germany etc. The resolution changes nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fucking-united-nations-endorses-terrorism/104027/5 "2002-04-17T02:32:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hemlock \* > **The wording was effective in dividing France, Belgium and other rabble from the US, UK, Canada, Germany etc.** First thoughts that came into my head after reading this: “Who needs the French, we’ve got the Germans!” ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fucking-united-nations-endorses-terrorism/104027/6 "2002-04-17T04:02:38Z")
Some slightly less inflammatory views of the resolution. [http://www.thedailycamera.com/news/worldnation/16wun.html](http://www.thedailycamera.com/news/worldnation/16wun.html) [http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/020415/w041599.html](http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/020415/w041599.html) [http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2002/04/15/killings/](http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2002/04/15/killings/) This, from the OP’s link: > [@](#): > > …the measure…supports the use of “all available means, including armed struggle” to establish a Palestinian state. –I can’t find mentioned anywhere else. I keep finding this quote– > [@](#): > > “The text contains formulations that might be interpreted as an endorsement of violence. There is no condemnation whatsoever of terrorism,” German Ambassador Walter Lewalter told the meeting. –but not any actual “endorsement of violence”. I also can’t find this anywhere else. > [@](#): > > …a United Nations document that condones violence as a way to achieve Palestinian statehood. So, lacking any other information, I am going to assume that the “endorsement of violence” is all in Steven Edwards’, and the National Post’s, imaginations. ---
**Author:** ![Alereon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@Alereon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alereon)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fucking-united-nations-endorses-terrorism/104027/7 "2002-04-17T04:06:28Z")
Violence is the traditional method used by oppressed peoples against their oppressors when “Hey! Stop oppressing me!” doesn’t work. We can all condemn acts of violence against civilians (need I point out that the Palestinians aren’t the only ones commiting such acts?), but attacks against Israeli military forces and targets are completely justified. **THIS IS A WAR, PEOPLE!** Soldiers die in war. It’s sad, but it’s what happens. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fucking-united-nations-endorses-terrorism/104027/8 "2002-04-17T05:58:34Z")
Fuck, that’s in the National Post? I didn’t notice the byline. Well, that explains that. Does anyone still believe that that’s an honest paper anymore? I mean, their editorialists have called people “faggots” on the _front page_ before. (Why do they even have editorials on the front page? Can anyone even tell the difference?) It shouldn’t surprise **Duck Duck Goose** or anyone else to find that something is in the National Post’s imagination. Don’t bother with them. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fucking-united-nations-endorses-terrorism/104027/9 "2002-04-17T08:25:34Z")
Hey december, I suppose that you want the Palestinians to lay down, eat live tank shells and stay there while they get buried alive, right? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Zero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@Saint\_Zero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Zero)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fucking-united-nations-endorses-terrorism/104027/10 "2002-04-17T10:37:58Z")
Considering how long these two have been fighting over this land, I doubt seriously either side will listen. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fucking-united-nations-endorses-terrorism/104027/11 "2002-04-17T13:15:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \*So, lacking any other information, I am going to assume that the “endorsement of violence” is all in Steven Edwards’, and the National Post’s, imaginations. I checked the web site of the UN Human Rights Commission this morning and did not find the text of the resolution. Anyone know how to get the actual text? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fucking-united-nations-endorses-terrorism/104027/12 "2002-04-17T13:23:09Z")
**december** - challenge for you - read something that doesn’t fit your political mold. Digest it. Turn it into a thread. Make a cogent argument about it. Condemn it, if you like. Could be an interesting post. Would certainly erode the stereotype I have of you. ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fucking-united-nations-endorses-terrorism/104027/13 "2002-04-17T15:12:53Z")
Oh, I get it now. A close reading of the National Post article reveals all - the National Post is being disingenuous, if not deliberately misleading. It starts by presenting, as an apparent quote from the resolution, an endorsement of the use of “all available means, including armed struggle” to establish a Palestinian state. But, in actuality, that phrase came from a 1982 General Assembly resolution that was (at least according to the National Post) “recalled” by the new resolution. Add to that, it appears that the 1982 resolution did not specifically refer to Palestine. According to the National Post “quote” (after these shenanigans, I feel obliged to place that word in quotes), the 1982 resolution “reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle.” Taken as a general statement, it would be mighty hard for Americans, much less much of the rest of the world, to object to this, though admittedly “all available means” is disturbingly overbroad. Sua ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fucking-united-nations-endorses-terrorism/104027/14 "2002-04-17T15:37:24Z")
> [@](#): > > the National Post is being disingenuous, if not deliberately misleading. I’m shocked. _Shocked._ ---
**Author:** ![RenMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecb155/32.png) [@RenMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RenMan)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fucking-united-nations-endorses-terrorism/104027/15 "2002-04-17T15:53:40Z")
This is pretty hypocritical of France and Spain especially. Both of them fight violent regional independence movements in their own countries (Basque Country and Corsica). ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fucking-united-nations-endorses-terrorism/104027/16 "2002-04-17T16:03:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RenMan \* > \*\*This is pretty hypocritical of France and Spain especially. Both of them fight violent regional independence movements in their own countries (Basque Country and Corsica). \*\* On the other hand: The West Bank and Gaza are {b]not\*\* part of Israel. They are occupied territories that have been infestated by Israeli squatters. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fucking-united-nations-endorses-terrorism/104027/17 "2002-04-17T16:21:28Z")
Well, it should not surprise you that the United Nations endorses violence. As I recall, it was originally an alliance of nations combatting aggression by Germany, Italy, and Japan in defense of democracy (and Communist people’s republics, since the USSR was an integral part, but we don’t mention that aspect, since the ideals held by most and given lip service by others were for law-abiding democracy). To preserve the desired state of affairs, the United Nations Organization was founded by an agreement among the United Nations, and differed from the League of Nations in having the ability to combat unethical force with ethical force. As to whether it has carried out its mandate, and whether or not endorsing violence by Palestinians (or by Israelis, or anybody else you care to name) is appropriate, opinions may differ. **Floater** – interesting point. Ignoring your inflammatory language, may I suggest that the West Bank and the Gaza Strip are within Israel’s _de facto_ boundaries, part of the territory claimed by the Jewish people under an alleged mandate from God, part of Palestine as a British mandate and trust territory – And the problem with this whole scenario is who has the right to live in that defined territory and who has the right to govern there – two distinct questions with related answers. ---
**Author:** ![RenMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecb155/32.png) [@RenMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RenMan)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fucking-united-nations-endorses-terrorism/104027/18 "2002-04-17T16:25:56Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by floater_ > On the other hand: The West Bank and Gaza are **not** part of Israel. They are occupied territories that have been infestated by Israeli squatters. floater, there are those who think that the Basque Country is not part of Spain, and Corsica is certainly not a part of France. It’s a freakin’ island, and they speak Italian for crying out loud! Borders are defined by those in power. There are Germans who think that Alsace and Lorraine are rightfully part of Germany, for example. Chechnyans don’t really think Chechnya is part of Russia, but the Russians seem to disagree. So don’t start **trolling** me about who is the rightful owner of your so-called “occupied” territories. My point was entirely different: that France and Spain are hypocritical in advocating violent rebellion, when they are dealing so harshly with independence movements in their own countries. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fucking-united-nations-endorses-terrorism/104027/19 "2002-04-17T23:00:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > **december** - challenge for you - read something that doesn’t fit your political mold. Digest it. Turn it into a thread. Make a cogent argument about it. Condemn it, if you like. Could be an interesting post. Would certainly erode the stereotype I have of you. (singing) “To dreammmmmmmmmmm… the impossible dreammmmmmmmmmm…” ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fucking-united-nations-endorses-terrorism/104027/20 "2002-04-17T23:35:55Z")
**jjimm** and **rjung** , do you recall my debates on the Bayesian analysis of the Exchange Paradox and on the Axiom of Choice? Those were mathematics topics. However, on the political side, see [Should we ban human cloning? (I agree with the Democrats!)](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=108726&highlight=democrats) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fucking-united-nations-endorses-terrorism/104027.md?page=2)