# The full range of things called 'pudding' in the USA **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 28, 2024, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-full-range-of-things-called-pudding-in-the-usa/1003445 "2024-06-28T14:00:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-full-range-of-things-called-pudding-in-the-usa/1003445/181 "2024-07-02T21:26:26Z")
I don’t know that it needs to have anything in common with other pies; to go back to the topic, I could theoretically order a three course meal in a pub-restaurant comprising: Starter: Mini Yorkshire puddings, stuffed with black pudding Main: Steak and kidney pudding Pudding: Malvern pudding -and I would have eaten four things called pudding, which are all completely different things (one of them as the conceptual meal course called ‘pudding’). This is the thing I was trying to explore - it’s not very important that two different things called ‘pie’ are similar to one another - as long as they are consistent with themselves; if I order shepherd’s pie and get toast with jam, that’s a problem because the item has persistence of identity; I expect shepherd’s pie to be shepherd’s pie, not to subscribe to a platonic pie-ness. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-full-range-of-things-called-pudding-in-the-usa/1003445/182 "2024-07-02T21:34:11Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > The question is whether the proportions of those things are the same on both sides. No clue. But I am not usually a splitter. I have been very narrow careful in defining “pudding” in this thread because I thought the point was to understand what American’s typically mean when they say “pudding”. And it’s not bread pudding or a steamed pudding or Angel Delight, even though I have made bread pudding and steamed pudding and called them by those names when I served them. Because yes, the common meaning of the word “pudding” in the US is a fairly small class of foods. But I think that’s just a particular example. It’s become popular among my friends to celebrate “pie day”, and a meal consisting entirely of disparate foods that all are “pie” would be entirely ordinary. For instance, the pot-luck meal might have mini-quiches and spanakopita for starters, and a pizza, shepherds pie, and pot pie for mains, and then have a selection of desserts including whoopi pies, “regular” fruit and custard pies, and a NY style cheesecake and a Boston cream pie for desserts. Because those can all be called “pie”. We wouldn’t do that with “pudding” because most of the other things that might be called pudding are pretty obscure in the US, honestly (or have a different name in the US, so no one would look at them and think. “oh yes, that’s a pudding, too”). And there’s isn’t a jokey holiday called “pudding day”. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-full-range-of-things-called-pudding-in-the-usa/1003445/183 "2024-07-02T21:38:37Z")
Thanks - yeah, I sort of hijacked my own thread here. I do still think, based on some of the reasoning in some of the replies here, taken together with other things elsewhere, that UK English is looser or less strict in its consistency of category than US English, but it’s very hard to be sure, because I’m most likely to notice differences between the two, rather than instances where UK English isn’t like that, or where the two dialects are exactly equally loose or strict. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2024, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-full-range-of-things-called-pudding-in-the-usa/1003445/184 "2024-07-03T16:16:45Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I guess I’ve never had a proper cream pie. Heheh. cheers! ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2024, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-full-range-of-things-called-pudding-in-the-usa/1003445/185 "2024-07-03T17:11:07Z")
Walked right into that, I did. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2024, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-full-range-of-things-called-pudding-in-the-usa/1003445/186 "2024-07-03T17:24:10Z")
Language is not logical, and any rules that do exist were not handed down by God. There are lots of exceptions to just about any category of human invention, and usage changes over time and from place to place. In Britain and Ireland, a whole chicken breast on a bun is called a “chicken burger,” while in the U.S. we call it a chicken sandwich. On the other hand, in the U.S. we call uncooked ground beef “hamburger,” while in the British Isles they call it “mince.” We can argue endlessly about whether a hot dog is a sandwich, or Boston cream pie is really pie, or bread pudding is actually custard. Cooking and the English language are not branches of mathematics, and the categories have fuzzy edges and lots of exceptions. It’s fun to talk about, but I don’t think there are any consistent rules. The meaning of the word “pudding” is inconsistent in all English dialects. I don’t want to threadshit. I’m enjoying the discussion. I just don’t think we’ll be able to come up with a set of laws that distinguish British and American usage, even in this limited case. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2024, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-full-range-of-things-called-pudding-in-the-usa/1003445/187 "2024-07-03T18:24:57Z")
I agree; my question was rather: is there any overall difference in the tendency to look for or desire those consistent rules, on either side of the pond. Not so much whose dialect is ‘best’ - that’s silly (it’s mine, of course, _thinks everyone_), but rather, _who desires the greater consistency, the more._ ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2024, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-full-range-of-things-called-pudding-in-the-usa/1003445/188 "2024-07-03T21:22:06Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > It’s a pretty ordinary casserole. You are aware that in the rest of the English-speaking world, _none_ of the things Americans call casserole are considered casserole, right? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2024, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-full-range-of-things-called-pudding-in-the-usa/1003445/189 "2024-07-03T21:47:43Z")
I don’t know about @puzzlegal 's knowledge, but I didn’t know that. What’s a casserole to the rest of the English-speaking world? In the US, it basically means any one-dish meal that’s baked in a shallow pan. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2024, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-full-range-of-things-called-pudding-in-the-usa/1003445/190 "2024-07-03T21:50:32Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > I don’t want to threadshit. I’m enjoying the discussion. It’s a great discussion. > [@MrDibble](#): > > in the rest of the English-speaking world, _none_ of the things Americans call casserole are considered casserole, right? I’m aware of this and offer thoughts and prayers. Stay strong! ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2024, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-full-range-of-things-called-pudding-in-the-usa/1003445/191 "2024-07-03T21:55:46Z")
[This thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-uk-people-call-cake-pudding/851365/244) has some posts about casseroles - basically they seem to be a stew that’s cooked in the oven. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2024, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-full-range-of-things-called-pudding-in-the-usa/1003445/192 "2024-07-03T22:56:27Z")
What’s the difference between cassoulet and casserole in the non-American world? I know cassoulet is a particular thing, but is casserole the same thing or different thing or a generic category? ??? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2024, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-full-range-of-things-called-pudding-in-the-usa/1003445/193 "2024-07-03T23:12:45Z")
I am not. In America, a casserole is typically a rectangular dish of food, usually with some protein and some wet and some starch, cooked in an oven. And it’s usually 3-5 fingers deep, maybe usually closer to 3 fingers. What is a casserole in the rest of the English speaking world? ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-full-range-of-things-called-pudding-in-the-usa/1003445/194 "2024-07-04T01:19:50Z")
My wife is from Ireland, and my understanding is that outside the US, a casserole is a kind of meat/veg/gravy stew cooked in an oven. What we call casserole is usually called something like a bake. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-full-range-of-things-called-pudding-in-the-usa/1003445/195 "2024-07-04T01:20:27Z")
“A bake”? That’s pretty generic! ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-full-range-of-things-called-pudding-in-the-usa/1003445/196 "2024-07-04T01:21:10Z")
So is casserole in the US. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-full-range-of-things-called-pudding-in-the-usa/1003445/197 "2024-07-04T01:26:26Z")
But a casserole is not a dessert in the US, and “a bake” makes me think more of a dessert than a savory meal. So? Slightly less generic? 🤪 ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-full-range-of-things-called-pudding-in-the-usa/1003445/198 "2024-07-04T01:59:14Z")
I mean, if you read “hot dish” literally, that’s extremely generic, but the actual meaning of the phrase is a lot less so. Blueberry pie straight from the oven is a hot dish, but it’s not a ‘hot dish’. Anyway, “a bake” sounds like a very descriptive term for what i would call a casserole. What kinds of dish would be called “a bake”? ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-full-range-of-things-called-pudding-in-the-usa/1003445/199 "2024-07-04T02:00:59Z")
I was thinking something like cobbler. But, then, I’ve never called anything “a bake,” or heard anyone else say that. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-full-range-of-things-called-pudding-in-the-usa/1003445/200 "2024-07-04T04:34:05Z")
A casserole was originally a type of deep baking dish. The word came to mean something cooked in that type of dish. In the U.S. it now means a one-pot baked meal. An American casserole usually contains a protein (like meat, tuna, or cheese), a starch (like rice, potatoes, or noodles), and sometimes a vegetable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-full-range-of-things-called-pudding-in-the-usa/1003445.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-full-range-of-things-called-pudding-in-the-usa/1003445.md?page=11)