# The future of Judaism **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 9, 2002, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-future-of-judaism/136014 "2002-11-09T12:05:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2002, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-future-of-judaism/136014/1 "2002-11-09T12:05:47Z")
OK, Solomon built the first one, Herod the Great built the second one. Do the Jews plan on building a third temple? I realize thatSecond Temple Judaism perished along with Jerusalem at the hands of the Romans in AD70 or whenever, and that modern Judaism had to create itself anew after this cataclysm, the Temple having been the very heart of the Jewish faith (as indeed it had been to the early followers of Yeshua/Jesus, whose solution was to cast Christ in the role of the Temple.) Is Temple worship no longer an aspiration of modern Judaism, and if so, why don’t they build a third one? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2002, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-future-of-judaism/136014/2 "2002-11-09T12:27:50Z")
Great question! ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2002, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-future-of-judaism/136014/3 "2002-11-09T12:48:23Z")
I am Jewish but am **NO** Jewish scholar. They’re all either asleep or at early morning Shul. 😉 But, I’ll offer a thought here anyway. The world has moved on, as Stephen King says, from what it was when the Torah was writtin. Now Israel exists in the pitched battle that is a day to day life with conflicting political and religious parties and cultures. There is the issue of the Ultra-Orthodoxy in Israel ( to whom all other Jews are not Jews ). Would they want to control the Temple? There is the issue of the real estate, to be blunt. Where would it be built? Who would permit the demolition of the so-called Wailing Wall in order to build the new Temple, and what other important buildings would have to be razed in order to accomodate the size of the Temple? Who would run it, in the literal sense? It seems to me from what I understand that Temple worship involves rituals and practices that are no longer a part of modern-day Judaism. I would be hard pressed to believe that Israel would ever even put forth the idea of a Third Temple in Jerusalem. Elsewhere in Israel? Perhaps, perhaps. I could see the construction of a Third Temple within Israel’s borders. I am not sure that the time is considered right, however. Things out that way are a wee bit volatile to be pouring foundations. ☹ Cartooniverse ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2002, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-future-of-judaism/136014/4 "2002-11-09T13:26:07Z")
Isn’t it the Messiah job, to rebuild the Temple? I gues they’re waiting for him… ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2002, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-future-of-judaism/136014/5 "2002-11-09T15:10:31Z")
I thought He was a carpenter, not a Mason. 😉 Yes, Messianic Jews are waiting for him. I personally don’t know any Messianic Jews. Some might argue that we are all Messianic, but I don’t cotton to that notion. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2002, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-future-of-judaism/136014/6 "2002-11-09T15:27:19Z")
Construction projects are currently stalled, but when the Messiah comes, everyone will try to look busy. ---
**Author:** ![Swampwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Swampwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swampwolf)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2002, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-future-of-judaism/136014/7 "2002-11-09T15:59:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cartooniverse \* > \*\* > > There is the issue of the real estate, to be blunt. Where would it be built? Who would permit the demolition of the so-called Wailing Wall in order to build the new Temple, and what other important buildings would have to be razed in order to accomodate the size of the Temple? > > \*\* Chances are, those who feel it would be desirable to re-build the Temple would insist upon doing so on the Temple Mount, where the first two stood. Unfortunately, that is the present site of the Dome of the Rock (aka the Golden Dome), which is one of the holiest sites in Islam. Technically, the Muslims control the Temple Mount (not including the Western Wall, of course: for those not “in the know,” the Western Wall was merely a retaining wall, and not physically part of the actual Temple). I can’t see how the Muslims would relinquish control of that prime piece of real estate for anything but a war that would level the whole region. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2002, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-future-of-judaism/136014/8 "2002-11-09T16:41:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Is Temple worship no longer an aspiration of modern Judaism, and if so, why don’t they build a third one? First, there are specific regulations regarding the purification of various objects to be used in the dedication and some of them require a direct connection to the objects used in the last Temple. (I’m being deliberately vague, here, as I have watched these discussions, before, but I wasn’t taking notes.) With over 2,000 years of interruption, the provenance of some items will be suspect. For example, to enter the Temple, one must be purified using ashes of a perfect red heifer. In 1997, one such calf was engineered by an American Fundamentalist rancher, but it developed white hairs before it reached the age of slaughter. While the Jewish people have kept track of who are _kohenim_ (priests) among them, I suspect that there would be some disagreement as to which line had the appropriate _bona fides_ to preside over the required ceremonies. Of course, someone might suggest that they simply start over with new rules, but I cannot imagine _any_ Jewish group going along with that suggestion. Opinions in the Jewish community are divided over such attempts to re-create the practices of two millennia ago. I recall a brief exchange on this MB where a proponent and an opponent each (politely) expressed surprise that the other would hold such a different view regarding the appropriateness of re-establishing the Temple and returning to rituals that included animal sacrifice. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2002, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-future-of-judaism/136014/9 "2002-11-09T17:51:33Z")
[nitpick]All Jews are waiting for the “true” Messiah. Messianic Jews are those who believe that Jesus is the Messiah. [/nitpick] Robin ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2002, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-future-of-judaism/136014/10 "2002-11-10T02:43:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Herod the Great built the second one Herod just refurbished it. The original construction was begun about 350 years earlier by Jews who returned with Zerubabel under the aegis of Cyrus the Great (of Persia) and completed by Jews under the direction of Ezra under the aegis of Darius some eighteen years later. > [@](#): > > Is Temple worship no longer an aspiration of modern Judaism, Temple worship is very much an aspiration of modern Judaism, at least amongst the Orthodox. Three times every day in our daily prayers, we ask G-d to return the Temple Service to what it once was, and more often, in additional prayers on holidays. > [@](#): > > and if so, why don’t they build a third one? There are numerous considerations regarding that. One issue is that some Jews are of the opinion that the third Temple will not be built by human hands but rather will descend fully-assembled from heaven by G-d, and that it would be sinful to make any effort at all to rebuild. Even according to those who don’t hold that opinion, there is the issue of ritual uncleanliness through contact with a dead body. It is practically a given today that everyone is “unclean” by this, and that kind of uncleanliness can only be removed through the ceremony of the ashes of the Red Heifer (Numbers chapter 19). (However, there are [recent developments on this front](http://www.templeinstitute.org/current-events/RedHeifer/). Another issue is the fact that it would be forbidden to build a new Temple anywhere but the precise historical location of the first two, and that location is currently occupied by the Al-Aqsa Mosue. Trying to raze it and build a Jewish Temple would undoubtedly lead to much loss of life, and Temple-building is not a commandment for which G-d says lives must be sacrificed. Nonetheless, what is being done in modern times is the non-controversial fabrication of new implements for Temple service at such time when G-d sees fit to allow the Temple service to be re-instated. You can see the [Temple Institute’s web site](http://www.templeinstitute.org/main.html) for more details about this. ---
**Author:** ![fishcrawford](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/85f322/32.png) [@fishcrawford](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fishcrawford)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2002, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-future-of-judaism/136014/11 "2002-11-10T02:53:47Z")
The original purpose of a temple, or, the tabernacle was to have a place to for God to dwell amongst the people when they worship him. With the New Testament, Jesus/God/The Holy Spirit, or the trinity as some call it, are said to now dwell where 2 or 3 people gather in its name. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2002, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-future-of-judaism/136014/12 "2002-11-10T03:58:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cmkeller \* > \*\*One issue is that some Jews are of the opinion that the third Temple will not be built by human hands but rather will descend fully-assembled from heaven by G-d, and that it would be sinful to make any effort at all to rebuild. > \*\* I don’t think that the proper tools can be obtained. The species of worm used by Solomon is either extinct or extremely difficult to find. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2002, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-future-of-judaism/136014/13 "2002-11-10T04:06:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cmkeller \* > \*\*One issue is that some Jews are of the opinion that the third Temple will not be built by human hands but rather will descend fully-assembled from heaven by G-d, and that it would be sinful to make any effort at all to rebuild. > \*\* I don’t think that the proper tools can be obtained. The species of worm used by Solomon is either extinct or extremely difficult to find. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2002, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-future-of-judaism/136014/14 "2002-11-10T14:04:46Z")
Worm??? ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2002, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-future-of-judaism/136014/15 "2002-11-10T16:11:21Z")
Well, yes, I can see that the obliteration of the Al-Aqsa mosque might raise a few eyebrows in the Moslem world. Whew! I never realized the formidable political obstacles, not to mention the religious ones, that stand in the way of any Third Temple. It certainly seems that this is something that would need all the powers of a Messiah/Moshiya and then some. Thank you all for your informative answers, especially cmkeller, tomndebb, cartooniverse and blessedwolf. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2002, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-future-of-judaism/136014/16 "2002-11-10T20:01:29Z")
[slight hijack] **Tomndeb** mentioned animal sacrifice. Forgive my ignorance, but what is the current “official” Orthodox explanation for why burnt offerings, sacrifices as called out in Leviticus etc. (e.g., Leviticus 5:7-9) aren’t currently (as far as I can tell) being practiced in the situations the law called for in olden days?[/slight hijack] ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2002, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-future-of-judaism/136014/17 "2002-11-10T20:52:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Huerta88 \* > \*\*[slight hijack] **Tomndeb** mentioned animal sacrifice. Forgive my ignorance, but what is the current “official” Orthodox explanation for why burnt offerings, sacrifices as called out in Leviticus etc. (e.g., Leviticus 5:7-9) aren’t currently (as far as I can tell) being practiced in the situations the law called for in olden days?[/slight hijack] \*\* Such sacrifices can only be performed at the proper places, the Temple for example. Since there currently is no Temple, there are no sacrifces. Re-Worms I was referring to a bit of Jewish folklore. G-d informs Solomon that the stones for the Temple may not be cut with any metal tool. Sol finds a mystical worm that can bite through rock. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2002, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-future-of-judaism/136014/18 "2002-11-10T20:58:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Huerta88 \* > \*\*[slight hijack] **Tomndeb** mentioned animal sacrifice. Forgive my ignorance, but what is the current “official” Orthodox explanation for why burnt offerings, sacrifices as called out in Leviticus etc. (e.g., Leviticus 5:7-9) aren’t currently (as far as I can tell) being practiced in the situations the law called for in olden days?[/slight hijack] \*\* Such sacrifices can only be performed at the proper places, the Temple for example. Since there currently is no Temple, there are no sacrifces. Re-Worms I was referring to a bit of Jewish folklore. G-d informs Solomon that the stones for the Temple may not be cut with any metal tool. Sol finds a mystical worm that can bite through rock. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2002, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-future-of-judaism/136014/19 "2002-11-10T21:58:01Z")
Thank you **Doc**. Any cite you can point me to for “no Temple, no sacrifice/other Temple-only rituals are required/possible?” Do those who’d be open to re-inaugurating the Temple in foreseeable times plan on practicing all the rituals, or can the bullocks and turtledoves and whatnot continue to rest easy? (I also wonder what current Israeli animal welfare law would have to say on this). ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2002, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-future-of-judaism/136014/20 "2002-11-11T05:06:25Z")
Huerta88: > [@](#): > > Any cite you can point me to for “no Temple, no sacrifice/other Temple-only rituals are required/possible?” The source is in Deuteronomy 12:8-14, which says: > [@](#): > > 8 - You are not to do as we do here today, everyone as he sees fit, > 9 - since you have not yet reached the resting place and the inheritance the LORD your God is giving you. > 10 - But you will cross the Jordan and settle in the land the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, and he will give you rest from all your enemies around you so that you will live in safety. > 11 - Then to the place the LORD your God will choose as a dwelling for his Name-there you are to bring everything I command you: your burnt offerings and sacrifices, your tithes and special gifts, and all the choice possessions you have vowed to the LORD. > 12 - And there rejoice before the LORD your God, you, your sons and daughters, your menservants and maidservants, and the Levites from your towns, who have no allotment or inheritance of their own. > 13 - Be careful not to sacrifice your burnt offerings anywhere you please. > 14 - Offer them only at the place the LORD will choose in one of your tribes, and there observe everything I command you. To summarize, Jews were only allowed to offer sacrifice in other places because G-d had not yet shown his preferred spot for a permanent altar, but once G-d designates a spot, sacrificial service may not be offered anywhere else. That designation came in David’s time, when the prophet Gad told David that he should build an altar on the threshing-floor of Aravnah the Jebusite (II Samuel 24:18). That site has, ever since, served as the only sacrificial altar for Jews. BTW, a minor correction to my own prior post. I stated above that the Second Temple was completed under the direction of Ezra; it was actually under the direction of the prophers Haggai and Zachariah. > [@](#): > > Do those who’d be open to re-inaugurating the Temple in foreseeable times plan on practicing all the rituals, or can the bullocks and turtledoves and whatnot continue to rest easy? (I also wonder what current Israeli animal welfare law would have to say on this). We hope to see all the rituals return. In any case, considering that animal slaughter for non-sacrificial purposes is completely permitted, I see no reason why the sacrifice motive would arouse any additional opposition. Doc Cathode: > [@](#): > > I was referring to a bit of Jewish folklore. G-d informs Solomon that the stones for the Temple may not be cut with any metal tool. Sol finds a mystical worm that can bite through rock. Yup…it was called the Shamir. Think Yitzhak Shamir will still be alive to see the third Temple rebuilt? (in any case, I imagine modern technology can find a metal-less way to hew stones). Chaim Mattis Keller [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-future-of-judaism/136014.md?page=2)