# The Galveston City Government: What Fuckups!!
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-galveston-city-government-what-fuckups/463438
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [September 13, 2008, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-galveston-city-government-what-fuckups/463438 "2008-09-13T14:38:18Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)
#### Post date: [September 13, 2008, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-galveston-city-government-what-fuckups/463438/1 "2008-09-13T14:38:18Z")
[In a city that knows what hurricanes can do, many Galveston citizens did not evacuate.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/13/AR2008091300843.html?hpid=topnews)
> [@](#):
>
> “Galveston Island is going to become part of the Gulf of Mexico,” U.S. Rep. John Culberson (R-Tex.) had told a TV station early on Friday.
>
> And yet people stayed. Not just a few hardliners, either. Much of the city – about 40 percent, the city manager estimated – rode out the storm.
That’s a much higher percentage than stayed in New Orleans during Katrina, by all accounts.
JFTR, I’m not actually Pitting the Galveston city manager. I’m Pitting the GOP apologists who blamed the loss of life in NOLA during and after Katrina on Mayor Nagin’s having failed to evacuate everyone. Some of 'em [still do](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10165627&postcount=96). But since there’s no evidence that the evacuation of NOLA was less thorough than that of other cities similarly threatened - and now, here we’ve got a VERY similar case where the evacuation rate apparently was a good deal worse - maybe it’s time to bury that bit of bullshit for good.
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### Author:  [@Skylark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skylark)
#### Post date: [September 13, 2008, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-galveston-city-government-what-fuckups/463438/2 "2008-09-13T14:44:46Z")
They were pretty clear that staying behind was not a good idea. Over the last 25 years since Alicia Houston’s done a lot of public thinking on what would happen if a killer storm came, the consensus always being Galveston’s fucked. If you’re an old man with a death wish I can accept, but the twenty thousand or more people who stayed fucking astounds me.
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### Author:  [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)
#### Post date: [September 13, 2008, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-galveston-city-government-what-fuckups/463438/3 "2008-09-13T14:46:42Z")
The sun has been up for like three hours, people are still trapped and dying\*, and the first thing you can think of is to pick a partisan fight?
- could be trapped and dying - the news stories don’t even say yet, which sort of underscores my point.
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### Author:  [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)
#### Post date: [September 13, 2008, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-galveston-city-government-what-fuckups/463438/4 "2008-09-13T15:31:47Z")
> [@neutron\_star](#):
>
> The sun has been up for like three hours, people are still trapped and dying\*, and the first thing you can think of is to pick a partisan fight?
>
> - could be trapped and dying - the news stories don’t even say yet, which sort of underscores my point.
Why - is there something I could be doing for them instead, right this minute?
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### Author:  [@Antigen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antigen)
#### Post date: [September 13, 2008, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-galveston-city-government-what-fuckups/463438/5 "2008-09-13T15:32:55Z")
> [@Skylark](#):
>
> If you’re an old man with a death wish I can accept, but the twenty thousand or more people who stayed fucking astounds me.
The news articles I’ve been seeing say that people in Galveston were calling all night asking for help getting out of their flooding homes, but conditions were too dangerous to send rescuers out. What in the world is wrong with people? You’re in the path of a gigantic hurricane, and every single weather report is telling you there will be 15+ feet of water coming to cover your city, and you think “yeah, I’ll just chill in my attic and listen to the rain”.
The rescuers were right in waiting for conditions to get better. They’re going to get crap for it, I’m sure, because people probably died overnight when nobody came to get them to safety. But it was the right decision - you don’t send a rescue crew out in conditions like that to hunt for people.
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### Author:  [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)
#### Post date: [September 13, 2008, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-galveston-city-government-what-fuckups/463438/6 "2008-09-13T15:42:05Z")
When is your figure from? Yesterday during the day I heard 60% evacuated and then last night before bed I heard 80%. The city told them that staying was “certain death” so it’s not like they didn’t try.
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### Author:  [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)
#### Post date: [September 13, 2008, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-galveston-city-government-what-fuckups/463438/7 "2008-09-13T15:42:08Z")
Well, I think Nagin is a dipshit and handled Katrina poorly, but it had nothing to do with the evacuation.
I think the Galveston City Gov. is acting poorly, too. They did say people who stay face certain death, so I don’t fault them for not warning. I fault them for not making the evacuation mandatory. Get the Nat’l Guard, go door to door and **make** them leave. Put them on buses at gunpoint if you have to.
As for evacuation rates, in **The Unthinkable** by Amada Ripley she investigates the behavior of people in disasters like 911 and katrina.
The only statistically significant indicators for whether somebody evacuated or not were age and length of residency. It turns out the older you were or the longer you’ve lived there, the more likely you were to have ridden out a hurricane or two, the more likely you were to remember going through the hassle of evacuating and having it turn out to be no big deal.
Then you were more likely to stay.
Wealth and race were not significant indicators.
* * *
Again, I have no problem with Rebublicans giving Nagin a hard time because he’s a dipshit. I find the idea that Republicans were being unfair, kinda laughable. After all, we were hearing how Bush didn’t care about black people, how he bombed the levees, and how Bush made the hurricane by promoting global warming and all the rest of that crap.
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### Author:  [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)
#### Post date: [September 13, 2008, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-galveston-city-government-what-fuckups/463438/8 "2008-09-13T15:43:58Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#):
>
> Why - is there something I could be doing for them instead, right this minute?
Eh, it kinda just seems a little… tasteless? If you’re cool with that, have fun ranting about the politicians.
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### Author:  [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)
#### Post date: [September 13, 2008, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-galveston-city-government-what-fuckups/463438/9 "2008-09-13T15:45:52Z")
> [@Scylla](#):
>
> After all, we were hearing how Bush didn’t care about black people, how he bombed the levees, and how Bush made the hurricane by promoting global warming and all the rest of that crap.
Heh. I don’t like Bush but I did have a belly laugh when people started saying he caused the hurricane.
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### Author:  [@Clovernook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clovernook)
#### Post date: [September 13, 2008, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-galveston-city-government-what-fuckups/463438/10 "2008-09-13T16:02:28Z")
I’m in San Antonio after having evacuated from the Clear Lake area. The mayor of Galveston screwed up. She initially called for a voluntary evacuation and said that it was “too late” to make it a mandatory evacuation. Then, 24 hours later, she changed her mind. By then, the folks who stayed may have thought it was too late or didn’t have any place to stay.
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### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [September 13, 2008, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-galveston-city-government-what-fuckups/463438/11 "2008-09-13T16:12:00Z")
> [@Skylark](#):
>
> They were pretty clear that staying behind was not a good idea.
Which of course is why they left a [thousand prisoners behind in the Galveston jail.](http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5997765.html)
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### Author:  [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)
#### Post date: [September 13, 2008, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-galveston-city-government-what-fuckups/463438/12 "2008-09-13T16:50:55Z")
> [@Scylla](#):
>
> I find the idea that Republicans were being unfair, kinda laughable. After all, we were hearing how Bush didn’t care about black people, how he bombed the levees, and how Bush made the hurricane by promoting global warming and all the rest of that crap.
So who did we hear this from? Random people on the Internet? Or from someone with cred among Democrats?
You can always find _someone_ who will say _any_ random shit. By this standard, the idea that the Dems might ever be acting unfairly is laughable, because look what **Scylla** and **Shodan** and **Starving Artist** say on the Dope.
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### Author:  [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)
#### Post date: [September 13, 2008, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-galveston-city-government-what-fuckups/463438/13 "2008-09-13T16:56:44Z")
> [@Cisco](#):
>
> Heh. I don’t like Bush but I did have a belly laugh when people started saying he caused the hurricane.
What’s so funny about it? If Castro can train sharks to eat the “balseros” why can’t Bush cause hurricanes? We have a long precedent of enterprising heads of state controlling nature to their purposes.
ETA: And more to the point, I don’t think the law allows the authorities to “mandate” evacuation. Calling it mandatory means “Don’t even joke about suing us for not caring about rescuing you or your corpse”. There is no real “or else” to their “evacuate or else”.
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [September 13, 2008, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-galveston-city-government-what-fuckups/463438/14 "2008-09-13T16:57:06Z")
> [@neutron\_star](#):
>
> The sun has been up for like three hours, people are still trapped and dying\*, and the first thing you can think of is to pick a partisan fight?
I have no sympathy for adults who made a conscious decision to stay behind despite the clearly given warning that to stay “meant certain death”.
I feel horrible for their children. ☹
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### Author:  [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)
#### Post date: [September 13, 2008, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-galveston-city-government-what-fuckups/463438/15 "2008-09-13T16:57:33Z")
> [@Scylla](#):
>
> I think the Galveston City Gov. is acting poorly, too. They did say people who stay face certain death, so I don’t fault them for not warning. I fault them for not making the evacuation mandatory. Get the Nat’l Guard, go door to door and **make** them leave. Put them on buses at gunpoint if you have to.
You forget that Galveston is in Texas. The residents have guns their own selves. Calling for a mandatory evacuation would only ensure that more people would stay, just out of sheer stubborness.
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### Author:  [@Qwisp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwisp)
#### Post date: [September 13, 2008, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-galveston-city-government-what-fuckups/463438/16 "2008-09-13T17:14:38Z")
Anyone too stupid to leave who need to be rescued should be charged the full cost of any rescue efforts made on their behalf. Tax payers should not have to pay for morons.
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### Author:  [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)
#### Post date: [September 13, 2008, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-galveston-city-government-what-fuckups/463438/17 "2008-09-13T17:30:00Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#):
>
> You forget that Galveston is in Texas. The residents have guns their own selves.
By Gawd and Baby Jaysus, we’re gonna deefend our homes an’ blow that flood back where it came from!
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### Author:  [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)
#### Post date: [September 13, 2008, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-galveston-city-government-what-fuckups/463438/18 "2008-09-13T17:33:57Z")
Forcing people to leave is illegal.
People are allowed to be stupid.
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### Author:  [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)
#### Post date: [September 13, 2008, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-galveston-city-government-what-fuckups/463438/19 "2008-09-13T17:42:16Z")
> [@autz](#):
>
> Forcing people to leave is illegal.
>
> People are allowed to be stupid.
Exactly.
Remember, kids, there’s no rehab for stupid!
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### Author:  [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)
#### Post date: [September 13, 2008, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-galveston-city-government-what-fuckups/463438/20 "2008-09-13T17:42:56Z")
New Orleans issued a [mandatory evacuation](http://wwwwakeupamericans-spree.blogspot.com/2008/08/hurricane-gustav-forces-mandatory.html) last month for Gustav:
> [@](#):
>
> In a mandatory evacuation, residents are not physically forced to leave, but are subject to arrest outside their houses if a curfew is imposed. Mr. Nagin also warned that anyone who chose to stay would not be able to rely on public agencies for emergency assistance.
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