# The Gas Nozzle Widget **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 4, 2013, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-nozzle-widget/667996 "2013-09-04T14:51:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-nozzle-widget/667996/21 "2013-09-04T16:53:52Z")
> [@Mr\_Gasman](#): > > …Let me explain what happens during a fill up using a non altered nozzle… > When gas reaches the venturi ,( the small hole at the end of the spout) it breaks the vacuum and trips the internal valve, resulting in the metal hold open latch to release. But like I said, they are mechanical and do fail sometimes. > > When you wedge a device in the nozzle, you are altering the normal operation. > Gas reaches the venturi, breaks the vacuum, but does not trip the internal valve properly because this thing is wedged in there…resulting in more spills… I’m pretty sure the metal latch doesn’t release at this point, only the internal valve. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-nozzle-widget/667996/22 "2013-09-04T17:04:31Z")
> [@Mr\_Gasman](#): > > When you start altering their operation with other devices, thats when they become unsafe, especially in the hands of the untrained user. As others have said, there is no functional difference between the factory latch clip and any other technique or tool that holds the lever open. All of the shutoff and safety mechanisms are internal to the handle and no method of holding the lever will override them. If the nozzle is so faulty as to keep dispensing after an internal trip, it’s in violation of several layers of law and regulation and should be taken out of service immediately. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Gasman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Mr\_Gasman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Gasman)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-nozzle-widget/667996/23 "2013-09-04T17:07:25Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Millions and millions of people _do_ use a lever-propping device every day. It’s pretty rare that I see a fuel dispenser without one built into it. > Millions and millions of people use the factory hold open levers every day, Not these widgets… There is a huge difference! > If you were wedging a device in the _nozzle_, that might be true. But the widget gets wedged in the _lever,_ functioning exactly the same way that a built-in lever-propping device does. The automatic shutoff mechanism will perform just as it always did, whether the lever is being propped up by the widget, by the built-in prop, or by your fingers. Take note next time you fill up…What happens to the lever when the auto shut off kicks in? It releases ! You stick something in the lever that doesn’t belong there, it doesn’t release…it stays in there… therefore preventing the nozzle from operating properly. ---
**Author:** ![Blakeyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blakeyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blakeyrat)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-nozzle-widget/667996/24 "2013-09-04T17:09:03Z")
> [@Mr\_Gasman](#): > > If millions and millions of people used these widgets every single day Millions _do_ use these widgets every day. That’s what we’ve been trying to tell you. > [@Mr\_Gasman](#): > > I guarantee there would be more spills… more dangerous situations, more injuries, more fatalities. Do you have evidence that, for example, Washington State which allows self-serve and clip-open nozzles has less safe gas stations than Oregon, a comparable State which is full-serve only? Do you have any evidence to back up this belief? > [@Mr\_Gasman](#): > > Let me explain what happens during a fill up using a non altered nozzle… > When gas reaches the venturi ,( the small hole at the end of the spout) it breaks the vacuum and trips the internal valve, resulting in the metal hold open latch to release. That’s not how it works. The interval valve shuts off the pump at the source. The hold-open latch keeps the handle open even after the pump has been shut off. Drive to a State that allows them and try it. Like I posted above, the latch is just a single piece of shaped metal, held in place with a hinge. There’s nothing to it other than that, no sensors, no break-away parts, nothing. The cut-off valve works on the entire pump, not just the pump handle. > [@Mr\_Gasman](#): > > But like I said, they are mechanical and do fail sometimes. I concede that point. > [@Mr\_Gasman](#): > > When you wedge a device in the nozzle, you are altering the normal operation. > Gas reaches the venturi, breaks the vacuum, but does not trip the internal valve properly because this thing is wedged in there…resulting in more spills… That plastic device doesn’t do anything different than the existing metal hold-open clip does. If anything, it’s safer because, being made of plastic, it’s not likely to strike a spark. (Not that the metal ones do either, but eh. Throwing you a bone here.) > [@Mr\_Gasman](#): > > All it would take is for it to happen to you once…Then you would change your tune.! Right. I’d feel pretty awful of a meteor fell from the heavens and hit me on the head tomorrow. The odds of that happening and the odds of a gas spell being caused by a hold-open clip are comparable: extremely remote. I’ll take the risk. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-nozzle-widget/667996/25 "2013-09-04T17:12:50Z")
> [@Mr\_Gasman](#): > > Take note next time you fill up…What happens to the lever when the auto shut off kicks in? It releases ! > You stick something in the lever that doesn’t belong there, it doesn’t release…it stays in there… therefore preventing the nozzle from operating properly. If I hold the lever with my hand, when the auto shutoff kicks in, the lever stays up (because my hand is still holding it there) - but no more gas flows. It’s no different if the widget is there instead of my hand. ---
**Author:** ![Blakeyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blakeyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blakeyrat)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-nozzle-widget/667996/26 "2013-09-04T17:13:03Z")
> [@Mr\_Gasman](#): > > Take note next time you fill up…What happens to the lever when the auto shut off kicks in? It releases ! > You stick something in the lever that doesn’t belong there, it doesn’t release…it stays in there… therefore preventing the nozzle from operating properly. When is the last time you used one of these pumps? All I can think of is maybe that was true decades ago? In my lifetime, it’s never been true though. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Gasman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Mr\_Gasman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Gasman)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-nozzle-widget/667996/27 "2013-09-04T17:16:41Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > In my experience this is not the case. The internal valve cuts off no matter what the position of the handle. I can’t get more gas to flow even if I keep squeezing the handle. > > I don’t think spilled gas is quite as dangerous as you think it is. A gas spill needs to be cleaned up, for sure, but it’s hardly an “OMG I SPILLED A LITRE EVERYBODY RUN!!!” situation. Spilled fuel is dangerous regardless of the amount… Would you know what to do should that happen to you…! ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Gasman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Mr\_Gasman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Gasman)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-nozzle-widget/667996/28 "2013-09-04T17:19:41Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I’m pretty sure the metal latch doesn’t release at this point, only the internal valve. You’re pretty sure ? Take note next time you fill up. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-nozzle-widget/667996/29 "2013-09-04T17:20:53Z")
> [@Mr\_Gasman](#): > > Take note next time you fill up…What happens to the lever when the auto shut off kicks in? It releases ! Actually, it doesn’t. I’m no a fan of wedging items in the pump handle, and I see people do it with the gas cap often here in MA since the pumps don’t have the lock mechanism. I’m more worried that it will somehow jam in there and the nozzle will fall out of the car and not release, but I’ve never seen that happen. ---
**Author:** ![Silophant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a698b9/32.png) [@Silophant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silophant)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-nozzle-widget/667996/30 "2013-09-04T17:23:08Z")
Double post. Oops. ---
**Author:** ![Silophant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a698b9/32.png) [@Silophant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silophant)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-nozzle-widget/667996/31 "2013-09-04T17:24:19Z")
> [@Mr\_Gasman](#): > > Spilled fuel is dangerous regardless of the amount… > Would you know what to do should that happen to you…! Sure would. I’d go on into the station, tell the attendant that I spilled some gas, and they’d say “We’ll get that cleaned up.” I’d thank them and be on my way. It’s gasoline, not hydrofluoric acid. ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-nozzle-widget/667996/32 "2013-09-04T17:26:01Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > If I hold the lever with my hand, when the auto shutoff kicks in, the lever stays up (because my hand is still holding it there) - but no more gas flows. > > It’s no different if the widget is there instead of my hand. This really really needs to be stressed. Without using the gas buddy thing you are relying on the auto shut off mechanism of the pump to keep gas from spilling. When filling a gas tank from a pump without the clip you hold the handle until the gas shuts off. This is how you know the tank is full. There is no other feedback. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-nozzle-widget/667996/33 "2013-09-04T17:26:18Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I’m no a fan of wedging items in the pump handle, and I see people do it with the gas cap often here in MA since the pumps don’t have the lock mechanism. I’m more worried that it will somehow jam in there and the nozzle will fall out of the car and not release, but I’ve never seen that happen. Because it can’t. There has to be a certain amount of backpressure or the nozzle won’t stay latched. If you squeeze the handle in mid-air, it will squirt a few ounces and click off. You see it wrong in TV and movies sometimes, though. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-nozzle-widget/667996/34 "2013-09-04T17:28:18Z")
> [@](#): > > If you squeeze the handle in mid-air, it will squirt a few ounces and click off. No it won’t. Otherwise I couldn’t fill my portable tank for the lawnmower. > [@Mr\_Gasman](#): > > You’re pretty sure ? Take note next time you fill up. I’m quite sure. What happens when the tank is full and you are holding the handle? ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-nozzle-widget/667996/35 "2013-09-04T17:29:23Z")
> [@Mr\_Gasman](#): > > You’re pretty sure ? Take note next time you fill up. As mentioned in post 11, they’re illegal here. All the self-serve pumps have them removed. I used to pump gas when I was in college. I’m quite familiar with the workings of the latch mechanism. It does not release when the pump shuts off. Only the internal valve shuts off; the latch remains latched. One must squeeze the handle to release the latch. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-nozzle-widget/667996/36 "2013-09-04T17:30:03Z")
> [@gazpacho](#): > > This really really needs to be stressed. Without using the gas buddy thing you are relying on the auto shut off mechanism of the pump to keep gas from spilling. When filling a gas tank from a pump without the clip you hold the handle until the gas shuts off. This is how you know the tank is full. There is no other feedback. I’m not quite sure what you’re saying here. With modern, regulation-meeting nozzles, which are pretty much the only kind anyone here is likely to encounter (it’s possible some commercial, military or private pumps have older types on them) there is NO difference whether you hold the lever by hand, use the built-on latch if it exists, or stuff anything from a Gas Buddy to a convenient kitten in there to hold the lever open. When the nozzle trips, it does so internally and no longer pays attention to the position of the lever or the mewling kitten. SOMETIMES the internal trip will also pop the external latch or kitten and let the handle return to the closed position, but that’s coincidental and caused by worn parts or an extra hard shutoff. ---
**Author:** ![Teuton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/teuton/32/3864_2.png) [@Teuton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teuton)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-nozzle-widget/667996/37 "2013-09-04T17:32:53Z")
> [@Blakeyrat](#): > > I’ve also, in 20+ years of filling vehicles, never seen, heard of, or experienced the “auto-cut-off” of a pump failing. (Usually it’s the opposite problem: it cuts off way too early.) I concede it’s possible, but I think you highly overestimate the probability of this happening. It happened to me. And I didn’t notice immediately either - I was watching the numbers roll on the counter and waiting for the click of the auto-off. Which didn’t happen. I spilled maybe a couple of litres of fuel before the guy filling up behind me pointed it out to me, and the worse thing about the whole thing was that I had to pay for the damn spilled fuel. I’m the UK, btw, and so there was no hold-on device - I was holding the trigger the whole time. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-nozzle-widget/667996/38 "2013-09-04T17:34:22Z")
These things have been discussed here before. I live in NY state and they’re not allowed here (like everything in NY). We even have little signs on most gas pumps stating that it is illegal to wedge your gas cap into the handle to hold it on (I do it anyway). As much as I despise ‘safety nazi’-type laws the real reason they started banning those things does have some statistical & scientific reason. It’s not to prevent an overflow if the shutoffs fail (which they never do), it’s because people (mainly women) would set the latch, leave it pumping, get back into their car, and then get back out when it finished. And what can happen, depending on the type of upholstery your vehicle has, getting in & out of your seat can sometimes charge you with a fair amount of static electricity. And when you touch the metal pump handle it can make a good size spark that would ignite the vapors. Unlike the whole cell phone fear, which is 100% bullshit, this can actually happen (though still fairly rarely). But like I said, unless there’s a cop fueling up next to me, I still prop it with my gas cap. ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-nozzle-widget/667996/39 "2013-09-04T17:34:55Z")
Amateur Barbarian I agree with what you are saying. My point is what is preventing spills in all cases is the auto shutoff not the vigilance of the person manning the pump. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-nozzle-widget/667996/40 "2013-09-04T17:51:00Z")
> [@gazpacho](#): > > Without using the gas buddy thing you are relying on the auto shut off mechanism of the pump to keep gas from spilling. When filling a gas tank from a pump without the clip you hold the handle until the gas shuts off. This is how you know the tank is full. There is no other feedback. As **Amateur Barbarian** points out, it doesn’t matter what’s holding the handle up: we are all relying on the auto shutoff mechanism to keep gas from spilling. > [@Amateur Barbarian](#): > > convenient kitten A fine suggestion for a new username; I hope someone takes it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-nozzle-widget/667996.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-nozzle-widget/667996.md?page=3)