# The gas used in Moscow theater siege? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 26, 2002, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-used-in-moscow-theater-siege/133988 "2002-10-26T15:24:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2002, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-used-in-moscow-theater-siege/133988/21 "2002-10-28T01:33:06Z")
[Latest News](http://www.bayinsider.com/partners/ktvu/news/ap_story.html/Intl/AP.V1656.AP-Russia-Theater-.html) on the situation. The Government still doesn’t seem to have released the info about the gas used. And I smell a pit thread coming about the whole situation. Things like [QUOTE] Podlesny questioned Russian television footage that showed the captors’ corpses in the theater amid liquor bottles and syringes. ``They didn’t drink, didn’t smoke, didn’t swear. They were very disciplined,’’ \Podlesny and Georgy Vasilyev, producer of Nord-Ost, disputed Russian officials’ statement that the guerrillas had begun shooting hostages before dawn and prompting the special forces’ assault. \ ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2002, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-used-in-moscow-theater-siege/133988/22 "2002-10-28T02:40:28Z")
Why not ether? It seems to be the knock-out gas of choice for hollywood. Watch- just a dab on a handkerchief and… _clunk_ ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2002, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-used-in-moscow-theater-siege/133988/23 "2002-10-28T08:10:47Z")
Is is possible that this is a top secret chemical weapon that was used? ---
**Author:** ![Andy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aeb1de/32.png) [@Andy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2002, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-used-in-moscow-theater-siege/133988/24 "2002-10-28T11:40:51Z")
I heard that one of the complicating factors may have been that the testing of the gas (whenever that happened) is likely to have taken place in a battlefield situation, and was possibly never intended for use in a confined area, hence the high casualties. Seems reasonable, although doesn’t help in identification. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2002, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-used-in-moscow-theater-siege/133988/25 "2002-10-28T12:11:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shade \* > \*\*Gas that works on people standing up (ie. lighter than air)? \*\* That wouldn’t work in a theatre, where the seating is sloped. Whatever they used, anaesthesia is a tricky thing (which is why in operating theatres you have one (or more) person whose job is specifically to administer it and closely monitor the state of the patient. It’s all about dosage; too low a dose would leave some people (including terrorists) conscious, too high a dose would kill everyone; a dose in the middle renders everyone unconscious (or incapacitated), but kills some of them. The same thing happens when they shoot lions (or whatever) with tranquiliser darts in zoos; they have to tailor the dose to the bodyweight of the animal so that it doesn’t either kill them or not work. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2002, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-used-in-moscow-theater-siege/133988/26 "2002-10-28T14:54:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Attrayant \* > \*\*Why not ether? It seems to be the knock-out gas of choice for hollywood. Watch- just a dab on a handkerchief and… > > _clunk_ \*\* That’s chloroform. Mmmm… chloroform… ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2002, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-used-in-moscow-theater-siege/133988/27 "2002-10-28T16:42:24Z")
[http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/10/28/moscow.gas/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/10/28/moscow.gas/index.html) > [@](#): > > Russian authorities are under pressure to name the mystery knockout gas – **said to be a drugging agent used for anaesthesia before surgery** – [http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/10/28/gas/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/10/28/gas/index.html) > [@](#): > > Doctors try to solve gas mystery > Monday, October 28, 2002 Posted: 10:07 AM EST (1507 GMT) > > MOSCOW, Russia – U.S. officials believe the gas used by Russian forces to end the siege by Chechen rebels in a Moscow theatre may have contained a chemical building block also found in heroin or morphine-based agents, sources tell CNN. > > Officials base their conclusion on medical evidence seen so far. > > Doctors attempting to treat some of the victims first used atropine, a standard antidote treatment used in a variety of overdose poisonings. The substance was not very effective. > > Doctors then reported using a substance known generically as narcan and as a brand name naloxone, which is used for countering the effects of heroin and a variety of morphine-based pain medications. > > That treatment was successful in many of the cases, sources tell CNN. > > Eldridge also said valium would have been an unlikely option because it would not take effect quickly enough and very large amounts would be needed. > > He also said the suggestion that the gas was BZ was unlikely because it is also quite slow-acting, giving the terrorists time to react. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2002, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-used-in-moscow-theater-siege/133988/28 "2002-10-29T02:04:58Z")
after the hijacking of the jets last sept. some people wondered about having some sort of “knockout gas” on board that the pilots could trigger in an emergency. “experts” claimed it would be too dangerous due to unknown medical conditions of people on the plane. many could have a bad reaction to the gas. seeing how things went in russia i can understand why the experts said “no” to using a “knockout gas” on a plane. you knew they would try something to stop the stand off in russia. i believe the reckoning was, how many more would die if the explosives went off and dealing with a raging fire in the theatr? the doctors treating the hostages should have been told what would help neutralize the gas. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2002, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-used-in-moscow-theater-siege/133988/29 "2002-10-29T23:04:24Z")
According to [this AP story,](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=514&e=4&cid=514&u=/ap/20021029/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_russia_theater_raid) the gas used was fentanyl, or a drug closely related to it. This info was released by US officials. How they discovered it is not stated. Possibly the Russians responded to American demands about info to treat American hostages. That’s only my supposition, however, based on the juztaposition of info about treatment of American hostages within the story. Wouldn’t that be a bitch, if the Russians let America know to save American citizens (and keep the aid money flowing?), but let their own citizens die. ---
**Author:** ![Bob\_Scene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Bob\_Scene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob_Scene)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2002, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-used-in-moscow-theater-siege/133988/30 "2002-10-29T23:33:26Z")
If it was fentanyl, that would go along with what one source said about naloxone reviving patients. Naloxone (which is the generic name, despite what it says above) is a specific antidote for overdoses of opiates like fentanyl. They probably could have saved quite a few of those people if they weren’t so obsessed with keeping it a secret. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2002, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-used-in-moscow-theater-siege/133988/31 "2002-10-29T23:57:03Z")
That’s sad… telling the doctors what types of antidotes to try wouldn’t require telling them the specifics of the chemical compound and dosage (Narcan – and atropine – work against multiple toxins) Those with the knowledge to figure it out would do so anyway. Some old habits die hard, I guess – remember the _Kursk_? ---
**Author:** ![Jojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecd19e/32.png) [@Jojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jojo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-used-in-moscow-theater-siege/133988/32 "2002-10-30T03:05:07Z")
Respect to bunyip for spotting the exact gas before the official pronouncement. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-used-in-moscow-theater-siege/133988/33 "2002-10-30T18:36:59Z")
Yeah, how’d he do that, anyway? \<\< turns and views Bunyip with extreme suspicion \>\> 😃 [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2377563.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2377563.stm) > [@](#): > > Wednesday, 30 October, 2002, 17:35 GMT > Russia names Moscow siege gas > > Russia says the gas used in the siege of a Moscow theatre on Saturday was based on fentanyl, a potent opium-based narcotic used as an anaesthetic. > > Russian Health Minister Yuri Shevchenko lifted a veil of official secrecy about the gas following enormous pressure from Western governments, whose citizens were among the hundreds of hostages poisoned by the gas. ---
**Author:** ![bunyip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@bunyip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bunyip)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-used-in-moscow-theater-siege/133988/34 "2002-10-30T21:10:39Z")
Just a (slightly ghoulish) interest in the subject for a number of years. A good source of information is the book by Malcolm Dando “A new form of warfare:the rise of non-lethal weapons”. Though for a lot of poor souls “non-lethal” seems to be a relative term. Also try [http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll?type=fm](http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll?type=fm) (Sorry, don’t know how to post a link). This is a list of pdf field manuals available for download. Try fm3-3 to 3-7 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gas-used-in-moscow-theater-siege/133988.md?page=1)