# The Ghostship in Oakland, California **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 3, 2016, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ghostship-in-oakland-california/773782 "2016-12-03T22:53:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ghostship-in-oakland-california/773782/21 "2016-12-04T05:17:17Z")
Why is this in the Pit? Normally, this kind of story goes in MPSIMS. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ghostship-in-oakland-california/773782/22 "2016-12-04T05:28:11Z")
What a horrible tragedy. I’ve attended events and known people who live in similar spaces. It’s an area where housing is stunningly expensive-- the average rent for a one bedroom apartment is $2400-- and many people make use of informal living spaces of various types. ---
**Author:** ![araminty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5e925/32.png) [@araminty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/araminty)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ghostship-in-oakland-california/773782/23 "2016-12-04T06:22:10Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Why is this in the Pit? Normally, this kind of story goes in MPSIMS. See the post above yours. Some miserable old bastard wants to say He Told Us So and They Deserve It For Being “Cool.” Horrible tragedy, so sorry for the victims and their loved ones. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ghostship-in-oakland-california/773782/24 "2016-12-04T06:42:13Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > According to the owners, there wasn’t supposed to be anyone living there. It’s hard for me to believe there wasn’t anyone living there, regardless of whether they were “supposed” to be there. Housing prices in the Bay Area are very high, and the artists who hang out at places like this are typically young and broke. The neighbors of this warehouse had complained to the city about late night parties, trash and other nuisances. The city started an investigation last month, but the place burned down before the investigation got anywhere. I’m sure the place would have been red-tagged if city inspectors had gotten a look inside. One thing that’s been reported on the local TV news is that the only exit from the second floor of the building was down a staircase made up mostly of wooden pallets. Some people have responded to Derick Ion’s Facebook post by saying they tried to warn him about how dangerous that warehouse was, and that he just laughed in reponse. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if the guy were charged with multiple counts of manslaughter. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ghostship-in-oakland-california/773782/25 "2016-12-04T08:11:20Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > It’s hard for me to believe there wasn’t anyone living there, regardless of whether they were “supposed” to be there. Housing prices in the Bay Area are very high, and the artists who hang out at places like this are typically young and broke. Yeah, I agree. I was just quoting the owners, but of course they’re going to say that. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ghostship-in-oakland-california/773782/26 "2016-12-04T13:18:01Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Ghostship: see: > [http://www.oaklandghostship.com/](http://www.oaklandghostship.com/) Looks like a theme restaurant gone mad. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ghostship-in-oakland-california/773782/27 "2016-12-04T13:47:13Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > It’s hard for me to believe there wasn’t anyone living there … The pictures of the (pre-fire) interior make this impossible to believe. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ghostship-in-oakland-california/773782/28 "2016-12-04T13:51:25Z")
> [@araminty](#): > > … miserable old bastard wants to say He Told Us So and They Deserve It For Being “Cool.” I guess I missed the “they deserve it” part. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ghostship-in-oakland-california/773782/29 "2016-12-04T15:45:19Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > The pictures of the (pre-fire) interior make this impossible to believe. And not a single smoke alarm. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ghostship-in-oakland-california/773782/30 "2016-12-04T16:08:59Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Looks like a theme restaurant gone mad. Looks like a TGIFridays fucked the corpse of a Long John Silvers then pushed it down a flight of stairs. ---
**Author:** ![Section\_Maker\_Jupe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/section_maker_jupe/32/1424_2.png) [@Section\_Maker\_Jupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Section_Maker_Jupe)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ghostship-in-oakland-california/773782/31 "2016-12-04T16:50:24Z")
Looks like my kinda place…really sad for loss of life. Pitting the fire inspectors etc seems more appropriate tho… I’ve seen antique shops here on the ca. coast that were just packed to the walls and ceilings with stuff…I wonder what the rules are for " stuff density"? ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ghostship-in-oakland-california/773782/32 "2016-12-04T16:54:45Z")
The death toll is up to 24, with 80% of the building still to be searched: > **[Names of seven victims released in Oakland fire; criminal investigators on scene](https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-oakland-fire-20161204-story.html)** > > Alameda County prosecutors have assigned criminal investigators to probe the fire at an Oakland warehouse that claimed at least 33 lives. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ghostship-in-oakland-california/773782/33 "2016-12-04T17:04:54Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Here’s a first hand account: > [Reddit - Dive into anything](https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/5ga0nl/nine_people_have_been_confirmed_dead_with_25/daqxs0k/) This has since been deleted. Fake account (of what happened) or preparing for a lawsuit? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ghostship-in-oakland-california/773782/34 "2016-12-04T17:31:29Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Why is this in the Pit? Normally, this kind of story goes in MPSIMS. Agreed. Also, this must have been one fast moving fire. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ghostship-in-oakland-california/773782/35 "2016-12-04T17:45:11Z")
> [@araminty](#): > > See the post above yours. Some miserable old bastard wants to say He Told Us So and They Deserve It For Being “Cool.” I don’t read that at all. Trying to inhabit, work in and sleep in a huge building manifestly not set up for safe occupation is dancing on a third rail, no matter how young, cool, handsome or artistic you are. Packing said building with the underage, the inebriated and the out of control is two-footing it on the third rail and a ground rail. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ghostship-in-oakland-california/773782/36 "2016-12-04T17:49:18Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > Also, this must have been one fast moving fire. It appears to have been, but apparently most people were on a second floor (and being a warehouse, I assume that means 12-15 feet up or more), with a rickety “staircase” of stacked pallets being the only exit. It only takes a small fire with copious smoke, near or involving the pallets (which tend to be softwood and/or oil), a few panicky people knocking it down, and what you have is a giant barbecue grill. Even those compos enough to find their way out were likely lost in the dark, smoke and panicing crowd, with the only escape jumping 15-20 feet to the ground. Being 20 with a gallery showing and looks like James Dean doesn’t make you bulletproof, kids. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ghostship-in-oakland-california/773782/37 "2016-12-04T18:08:12Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > This has since been deleted. Fake account (of what happened) or preparing for a lawsuit? From the poster > [@](#): > > " **I told a story on reddit and now I’m worried about possibly getting subpoenaed before a court.** [https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/5gdf86/i\_told\_a\_story\_on\_reddit\_and\_now\_im\_worried\_about/](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/5gdf86/i_told_a_story_on_reddit_and_now_im_worried_about/) He says: > [@](#): > > Also while I believe this is all true it’s from my perspective and it was such a hectic time that I could be messing up and putting down incorrect information. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ghostship-in-oakland-california/773782/38 "2016-12-04T19:45:50Z")
> [@Section\_Maker\_Jupe](#): > > I wonder what the rules are for " stuff density"? Presumably the rules would depend on whether the place is a warehouse (its nominal category) or an art workshop / funky residence / concert venue (apparent actual usage). [QUOTE=LittlePig] … this must have been one fast moving fire. [/quote] Based on what the pictures show, no other kind would have been possible. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ghostship-in-oakland-california/773782/39 "2016-12-04T19:57:27Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > This has since been deleted. But not before being copied to [other sites](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3998262/Survivor-writes-harrowing-account-escaped-Oakland-warehouse-fire.html). That account certainly feels honest. While the author is likely to be required to testify, I think he’s unlikely to be in trouble for his posting. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ghostship-in-oakland-california/773782/40 "2016-12-04T20:27:32Z")
Had I seen the Ghostship’s website, or been there myself, a few days ago, I would have thought it was a really cool place. Now I just see it as the deathtrap it was. ☹ The confirmed death toll is now 30 and only about 1/5 of it has been inspected. I also heard earlier that identifying some of them may be challenging because they are transgendered and may use more than one identity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ghostship-in-oakland-california/773782.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ghostship-in-oakland-california/773782.md?page=3)