# The giant Scylla Thanksgiving crow eating thread. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 24, 2003, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049 "2003-11-24T22:06:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/221 "2003-11-27T05:57:44Z")
[pentagon announces additional 17,000 reservists to be called to Iraq, Afghanistan for up to 18 months](http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/11/26/sprj.irq.pentagon.mobilization/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/222 "2003-11-27T05:59:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yojimbo \* > \*\* > So over a decade ago they statically used what could be described as an act of terror during a war. If the US and allies had of followed through then or at least supported the revolt in the south after the war we might be on the same page but here we are in 2003 and I’m saying **this** war was Neocon based. \*\* What you said a page ago was this: > [@](#): > > f there was evidence of Iraq funded terrorists threatening the States or any outside power I’d be with you. You’ve just conceded that Iraq committed an act of terror. Now, this thread exists for the purpose of holding me to words I said almost half a year ago. It exists because even though I conceded the point about a month ago, some people thought I didn’t concede well or often enough. Now instead of complaining about beating dead horses, I decided there would be no reason why I couldn’t concede the point again. After all, they were right, I was wrong. Why should they not enjoy the satisfaction and here it again. So I conceded the point again, again, and again. I went through that ridiculous semantic exercise with Minty Green wherein he demonstrates how to accept a concession with a total absence of class and grace. And, I did it without complaint. And now I’m being pissed on and called a weasel for not conceding other things, just because they would like me to. So, what I’m kind of wondering is if you are going to stand behind your words, or, is it just me that does that? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/223 "2003-11-27T06:01:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > \*\*[pentagon announces additional 17,000 reservists to be called to Iraq, Afghanistan for up to 18 months](http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/11/26/sprj.irq.pentagon.mobilization/index.html) \*\* I too would prefer security without cost. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/224 "2003-11-27T06:12:20Z")
**Scylla** they aren’t going to protect us. They’re going to protect Bush’ lie. and you know that. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/225 "2003-11-27T06:16:09Z")
A “concession” lasts more than three posts. If you return to the same old lie, the purported concession is no such thing. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/226 "2003-11-27T06:22:02Z")
> [@](#): > > …I see no shortage of perfidy, lies or dishonesty on the part of those that oppose the war. I see what seem to me to be deliberate falsehoods perpetrated by Bush’s opposition… And again I say, bring 'em on. Show us what you got, tough guy. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/227 "2003-11-27T06:24:17Z")
**minty** , he conceded exactly what he said he would. He conceded that the WMD claim was bogus, that they don’t exist. That was the only thing he said he would stipulate to, and he did, to his credit. Now you guys are just beating him up for other stuff while you have the chance, stuff he never stipulated to, and you’re trying to say that he’s weaseling, or going back to old lies, when the stuff you’re going after him with now has nothing to do with the original deal. He gave you the admission you longed for about the WMDs, and now you guys are arguing entirely different stuff. It’s kinda petty, if you ask me. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/228 "2003-11-27T06:30:51Z")
Oh, and **Minty**? Small apology, kinda ragged on you a bit. Saying it seemed like he was being straight with us, maybe you should cut some slack? You were right, I was wrong. Been too long away from Texas, forgot what deep dish bullshit smells like. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/229 "2003-11-27T06:31:55Z")
> [@](#): > > We said “Hey Saddam, it’s post 9/11. We let you slide in 1991 and you haven’t kept up your end of the bargain, you need to get with the program **because we can’t have you out there making God knows what weapons** , and giving them to God knows who. You haven’t followed through on the program you agreed to, and we can’t afford the risk so if you don’t shape up we’re gonna do something about it.” > He didn’t and we got thwarted by our own allies in doing something about it. The above, **Airman** , is not an argument made by someone admitting he’s been lied to. Read that carefully. If Saddam had no weapons, which he obviously didn’t, exactly which program was he supposed to get with? Saddam was being asked to prove a negative, which is impossible. So he couldn’t do the impossible, and his country was invaded. The above, let’s be very crystal clear about this, is a lie, especially the part bolded. Pure and simple. Saddam didn’t have to shape up, because he already, demonstrably, had. So what we have here is someone who first says he was lied to, then goes right back to stating the same fucking things again and thinking we’re going to be stupid enough to believe him a second time. I’m not a moron. Neither is **minty** , **wring** , or **luc**. We can read English, and the above states in plain English that Saddam was doing something he wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/230 "2003-11-27T06:39:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > **minty** , he conceded exactly what he said he would. He conceded that the WMD claim was bogus, that they don’t exist. That was the only thing he said he would stipulate to, and he did, to his credit. No, goddammit, that is NOT what The Usual Weasel promised he would concede by Thansksgiving. There is a vast difference between _Oops! The President was mistaken!_ and _Holy fucking shit, the motherfucker intentionally lied to us!_ ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/231 "2003-11-27T06:40:08Z")
I didn’t read it the way you did at all, **pantom**. I read that as what one would imagine Bush’s policy towards Iraq would be. At no point did he say that any of that was true. He said that that was the rationale. Just because you know it’s not true doesn’t mean you can’t restate the excuse for explanatory purposes. Strangely enough, in that very same post he stated > [@](#): > > We couldn’t afford to back down, so Bush lied to make it stick so we wouldn’t be a paper tiger. That doesn’t look like somke blowing to me. It looks like a man who has conceded your every point about Bush’s dishonesty and is still taking a beating. What do you want from him? You want him to get down on his knees and beg for forgiveness? You must want something, because you’re beating the piss out of him after he’s given up. Can’t you see that? ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/232 "2003-11-27T06:41:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > Oh, and **Minty**? Small apology, kinda ragged on you a bit. Saying it seemed like he was being straight with us, maybe you should cut some slack? You were right, I was wrong. Been too long away from Texas, forgot what deep dish bullshit smells like. No sweat, man. Don’t forget that I’m trained to ferret out the weaseling. Hell, the fates of billion-dollar corporations depend upon my bullshit detecting skills. The Usual Weasel never stood a chance. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/233 "2003-11-27T06:43:38Z")
From the OP: > [@](#): > > I thought that I would put this thread here, not only so that Scylla could officially admit that it looks as if there are not any WMD in Iraq (and to be fair, her really did a pretty fair job of that in this thread anyway) but also so that, in the spirit of cleansing and healing, any other dopers that wanted to could step up and admit that the leader that they support(ed?) was either grossly misinformed, or lying From **Scylla** on Page 2: > [@](#): > > No Problems Binarydrone. Kudos to those who were correct on such a controversial and hotly debated issue. For the record, I still think and admit that I was wrong. > > Okeydoke? And yet again on Page 3: > [@](#): > > I was wrong, y’all were right, the Prez did us dirt. I guess that’s not good enough for you? ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/234 "2003-11-27T06:44:10Z")
Nope. If that’s really what he thinks, what does the last line of that quote mean? Read that: “He didn’t and we got thwarted by our own allies in doing something about it.” What didn’t he do and in what way did our allies thwart us? _That sentence only makes sense in the context of him having weapons._ He has conceded exactly nothing. This is a dishonest bit of wordplay, worthy of a politician. He is not worthy of being defended by anyone. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/235 "2003-11-27T06:45:43Z")
**Scylla** , I read your big post and I only see a fall back to the same old “the end justify the means” The terrorists had a safe harbor in Afghanistan, it was totally justified to go there, not so Iraq. > [@](#): > > Personally, I don’t care about getting the people responsible for 9/11. It would be nice, but what they did is done. We can’t undo it. Now that is a very dumb thing to say, I could not see anything there but granting Dubya carte blanche to attack any country he wishes to, even if Al-queda is not there. Afghanistan showed me that sometimes wars have to be fought; Iraq showed me that this president is a swindler, willing to corrupt even the war on terror to support his preconceived course of action, and to benefit his cronies. And **Airman Doors, USAF** , even if English was/is my second language I agree with **pantom** ’s assessment, even I can read that. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/236 "2003-11-27T06:47:38Z")
I see the Friends of Saddam are babbling as much as ever. Still ignoring the fact that GW never stating a single _casus beli_; Rather, GW stated several. Of course, your twisted hatred of all things that bear the mark of Bush blinds you to mere facts. You only see and hear what you want to see and hear. One day, I hope you will have the intellectual honesty to examine your absurd position: The world would have been a better place if Saddam was not removed from power. I know, probably too much to hope for. You will probably go to your dying days cursing Bush for removing Saddam from power. Heck, Saddam was a good Stalinist… > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pantom \* > \*\*I’m not a moron. Neither is **minty** , **wring** , or **luc** … \*\* The lot of you certainly aren’t doing much to dispel the notion that you are morons. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/237 "2003-11-27T06:50:04Z")
Thanks for the compliment, **Brutus**. If I can provoke you, I know I’ve done the right thing. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/238 "2003-11-27T06:50:11Z")
The dude gave you what you wanted, and you still want more. Lotsa class you guys are showing here. You can’t even be gracious in victory. Have fun beating down a helpless man. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/239 "2003-11-27T06:51:58Z")
I can’t help you if you can’t recognize a lie, even when it’s pointed out to you. Good night. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/240 "2003-11-27T06:53:13Z")
Oh, wait, I see now. “The Prez done us dirt”. Why, the poor fellow has been mischaracterized and misrepresented _again_! See, he doesn’t mean “dirt”, he means, like, “earth”, the fertile soil from which all goodness springs! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049.md?page=13)