# The giant Scylla Thanksgiving crow eating thread. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 24, 2003, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049 "2003-11-24T22:06:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/561 "2003-11-30T07:05:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by squeegee \* > \*\*I’ve read one of Coulter’s and two of Franken’s. You? \*\* One of each. Slander and Lying Liars. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/562 "2003-11-30T07:27:44Z")
> [@](#): > > One of each. Slander and Lying Liars. Wait. Don’t spoil the ending, but does Ann finally get laid? And does Al break down and ultimately buy a thesaurus? > [@](#): > > _[James] Joyce, in his messianic fervour, was fully aware that he was wrenching the novel away from the public – for whom it had been invented – and delivering it to the literary experts._ > > _snip_ > > _Whatever his genius, Joyce provided the justification for an elitist revolution designed to steal fiction from the people._ From _Voltaire’s Bastards_. We’ve truly sunk to a new low when we’re arguing the merits and imagery of Coulter and Franken. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/563 "2003-11-30T07:34:55Z")
You guys are discussing books by a harpy, lying woman with absolutely no redeeming values, and a satirist and comedian who has written a book, which automatically makes him the font of wisdom, I guess. Can’t we just accept that they’re both partisan hacks and move on? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/564 "2003-11-30T07:36:08Z")
Oh, and the previous post is number 562, **Desmo**. Kind of an auspicious record, wouldn’t you say? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/565 "2003-11-30T07:39:18Z")
My translator arrives, just in time… ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/566 "2003-11-30T07:55:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > One of each. Slander and Lying Liars. Same, plus _Rush Limbaugh is etc etc_, because the title was too amusing to resist. 🙂 I thought the Franken book had about 3 chapters of interesting commentary and cites along with quite a lot of fluff. The Coulter book was…disturbing. Everything I’ve taken the time to track down from _Slander_ has been, at best, distorted, obfuscated spin. Franken seemed to be trying to amend some of this while trying to be funny (and sometimes failing at it miserably) but trying to be accurate. Overall both sides were a) partisan hacks, b) Franken admitted he was a partisan hack but tried to back up his hacking with good cites (countering Coulter’s and others bad research), c) Coulter admitted no such thing and lied through her teeth (YMMV) that she had The Truth. I found Franken more engaging because he admitted his bias where Coulter only accused everyone else of bias. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Svinlesha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/22d042/32.png) [@Mr.Svinlesha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Svinlesha)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/567 "2003-11-30T08:19:24Z")
**Red Fury** : Thanks for your kind words. Since the task occasionally feels really hopeless, its nice to read that the effort isn’t a complete waste. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/568 "2003-11-30T08:19:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Beagle \* > “Nothing like 9/11 happened on Clinton’s watch.” > > Implied necessary premise to the argument: because the first truck bomb in the WTC was either not big enough or in the wrong place. Dumb luck saves the Arkansas superman – again. I just have to wonder, if the WTC truck bomb _had_ done significant damage in its attack, would you be gracious enough to admit that Clinton was only in office for **38 days** , and therefore wasn’t in any real position to do anything? Especially since it appears _his_ predecessor didn’t give him _any_ day-long briefings on the growing terrorist threat? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/569 "2003-11-30T08:24:09Z")
I will point out that the nonpartisan site [Spinsanity.org](http://www.spinsanity.org) has dozens of pages documenting the lies and distortions from Coulter, Moore, Limbaugh, O’Reilly, _et al_ in great detail, but Al Franken only gets a wrist-slap for a few instances of using Coulter-type language – they couldn’t catch Franken for factual errors. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/570 "2003-11-30T08:24:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > \*\*That’s an interesting excerpt **Tee**. You know, the usual courtesy is to supply links. Allow me to demonstrate… > > [http://www.onlisareinsradar.com/archives/001887.php](http://www.onlisareinsradar.com/archives/001887.php) > > has several such excerpts. It would appear that, in your haste to smite the PL’s, you trimmed a bit. \*\* What in the World…I searched “Al Franken” and got his official website, [http://www.ohthethingsiknow.com/](http://www.ohthethingsiknow.com/) , and that was a piece from Read the Excerpt. Yes I trimmed a bit, the rest is even sillier. Go and see. If it means that much to you, pick out something in particular that he’s saying and I’ll either refute it or agree with it. (Tomorrow.) ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/571 "2003-11-30T08:26:45Z")
Sure, **rjung**. Remember, I wasn’t always a Clinton hater. I voted for the bastard in 1996. His first term gets the benefit of the doubt from me, for the most part. BTW, when I cited stuff that happened under Clinton’s watch, it hadn’t occurred to me that he was under the same circumstances as Bush was. So I won’t blame that on him, if you don’t blame 9/11 on Bush. Deal? ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/572 "2003-11-30T08:43:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > \*\*Oh, and the previous post is number 562, **Desmo**. Kind of an auspicious record, wouldn’t you say? \*\* Congrats! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/573 "2003-11-30T09:03:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > \*\*Sad. I know. It’s why I’ll never make a good Democrat. \*\* Why not just come right out and admit it: you’re a lying fucking idiot, and you’re proud of it. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/574 "2003-11-30T09:13:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > \*\* > Can’t we just accept that they’re both partisan hacks and move on? \*\* Nope. She’s a psychotic liar, he’s not. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/575 "2003-11-30T09:16:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RedFury \* > \*\* And if you ever think it’s not worth it, that no one listens, allow me to suggest you go back and read the first couple of pages in this thread to gather your strenght. > > For giving me one, and then some…I thank you all. \*\* Thank you so much for saying that. I haven’t devoted much energy to doing this largely because I did feel that no one was listening. I feel a little better now. ---
**Author:** ![litost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@litost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/litost)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/576 "2003-11-30T09:24:35Z")
[hijack] Did anyone see Ann Coulter on C-SPAN debating on issues related to Supreme Court rulings? Someone asked her a straightforward question about a particular ruling and she rambled on and on… it looked like she didn’t even know her Bill of Rights very well. The thing that puzzled me the most was why the audience was rabidly cheering her statements that were for the most part filled with contentless spite. [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/577 "2003-11-30T10:40:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stoid \* > \*\*Nope. She’s a psychotic liar, he’s not. \*\* Silly me, of course he’s not. He’s a liberal. :rolleyes: Of course, now I’m going to be asked to refute something he said in his book. I don’t think that’s going to happen, and I’ll tell you why. Even if everything he said is 100% true under all circumstances, I still don’t like his politics. It doesn’t matter whether he has all of his ducks in a row, I will almost certainly disagree with his conclusions. I am a conservative type person, and hearing opinions from the tanked-up dude making faces at the monkeys on the train in Trading Places is not going to have an impact on my worldview. Oh, and Stuart Smalley sucks. And so does Ann Coulter. I’d rather eat warm barf than read any of her books. How’s THAT for honesty? ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/578 "2003-11-30T10:58:10Z")
That’s certainly honest. And I realise this is the Pit and all, but "Of course, now I’m going to be asked to refute something he said in his book. I don’t think that’s going to happen, and I’ll tell you why. Even if everything he said is 100% true under all circumstances, I still don’t like his politics. " just doesn’t cut it. I _don’t care_ what you think of his politics. I _don’t care_ what you think of his acting ability. If you think he’s _factually incorrect_, then produce some cites that rebut the facts. If you think he’s _philosophically or idealogically incorrect_, then you’re on very swampy ground. What’s his philosophy? What’s yours? What are the practical upshots of your philosophy vs his? ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/579 "2003-11-30T12:31:31Z")
I just finished listening to the audiobook of _Lying Liars_, and I don’t think Franken should be mentioned in the same sentence as Coulter. He seems to go out of his way to get his facts straight and to represent his sources accurately. The book succeeds more in exposing the dishonesty of the current crop of right-wing media heroes than it does for promoting the liberal viewpoint, but even this is done in a fair manner. Compare this to Michael Moore’s latest, which I also just listened to (I had a long drive) and found to be almost entirely claptrap (as was _Stupid White Men_). I will grudgingly say that Moore has devolved into a partisan hack (grudgingly because I have enjoyed his movies and TV shows and his first book, _Downsize This!_), but Franken’s book stands out from the pack. Dr. J ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049/580 "2003-11-30T15:30:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\*I just have to wonder, if the WTC truck bomb _had_ done significant damage in its attack, would you be gracious enough to admit that Clinton was only in office for **38 days** , and therefore wasn’t in any real position to do anything? Especially since it appears _his_ predecessor didn’t give him _any_ day-long briefings on the growing terrorist threat? \*\* No problem. The problems _ **I** _ had with Clinton – as opposed to some fictitious strawbeagle – involved his disinterest in foreign policy. Clinton’s work against terrorism has increased daily since he left office. “It’s the economy stupid.” Only if you are the Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board. The job of the President of the United States is to conduct foreign policy and to be the CinC. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giant-scylla-thanksgiving-crow-eating-thread/215049.md?page=30)