# The Gilded Age on HBO Max (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, hbomax-wb-dc\ **Created:** [January 31, 2022, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gilded-age-on-hbo-max-open-spoilers/958668 "2022-01-31T02:38:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2022, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gilded-age-on-hbo-max-open-spoilers/958668/61 "2022-03-14T12:11:18Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > _Downton_ ran for six seasons as a continuing story. It’s just a different art form. The Downton film was just as cheesy. Possibly more. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2022, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gilded-age-on-hbo-max-open-spoilers/958668/62 "2022-03-15T02:46:48Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > The Downton film was just as cheesy. Possibly more. I guess that’s why the Downton series won 7 Prime Time Emmys, two Golden Globes, and a host of other awards. For being “cheesy”. As for the film, it has an aggregate rating on Rotten Tomatoes of 84% from 257 critics, and an audience rating of 94%. For being even more cheesy. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2022, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gilded-age-on-hbo-max-open-spoilers/958668/63 "2022-03-15T05:56:08Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > > [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > > > The other upstairs crowd tolerates Peggy when she is accompanying Marion (it would be rude to Marion and through her to Agnes otherwise), but the only one who acknowledges as anything besides a servant her is Mrs. Chamberlain at Bloomingdale’s, where she rescues Peggy from being accosted by the store staff - but Mrs. Chamberlain is an outcast herself. > > Clara Barton was willing to accept Miss Scott’s interest in the Red Cross, perhaps hoping to get support from the black community. (And Clara Barton was also willing to accept Mrs Chamberlain’s contributions, so perhaps they’re portraying her as more progressive than most.) Just got through that episode. It was made clear that Agnes is pretty far to the progressive side when it comes to race relative to others in high society. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2022, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gilded-age-on-hbo-max-open-spoilers/958668/64 "2022-03-15T08:33:25Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I guess that’s why the Downton series won 7 Prime Time Emmys, two Golden Globes, and a host of other awards. For being “cheesy”. As for the film, it has an aggregate rating on Rotten Tomatoes of 84% from 257 critics, and an audience rating of 94%. For being even more cheesy. Hey, I love Downton, not sure why you’re feeling like you need to defend it. It’s great entertainment, but let’s not pretend it’s Shakespeare. Cheesy can still be fun. Maybe cheesy is a descriptor Americans find more offensive than Brits? ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2022, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gilded-age-on-hbo-max-open-spoilers/958668/65 "2022-03-15T17:58:13Z")
So Marian is going to elope with Raikes, apparently just to show 'em. Peggy’s response — basically “I’m happy if you’re happy” — says it all. I just can’t bring myself to care. If Agnes is _Gilded Age’s_ Dowager Countess, then Marian is the show’s Matthew, except that Matthew’s dilemma was interesting and he was a sympathetic and engaging protagonist. I very much enjoyed the interaction between Agnes and Peggy – Agnes knows she’s not standing up for Peggy the way she should, and Peggy accepts it with dignity. I do hope these two will cross paths again now that Peggy is out of the house. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2022, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gilded-age-on-hbo-max-open-spoilers/958668/66 "2022-03-15T18:04:19Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > To be fair, Gosford Park is several notches a better script than either Downton or Gilded. Thanks to Robert Altman and Bob Balaban. On edit: I’m American, and I agree _Downton_ was cheesy. I mostly watched for the clothes and the houses. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gilded-age-on-hbo-max-open-spoilers/958668/67 "2022-03-16T00:27:29Z")
> [@Nonsuch](#): > > So Marian is going to elope with Raikes, apparently just to show 'em. With another person this week telling her it’s a bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gilded-age-on-hbo-max-open-spoilers/958668/68 "2022-03-16T00:45:12Z")
I think it’s going to turn out to be a bad idea. The giveaway (to me) was the troubled look that appeared on Ada’s face as she watched Raikes become very flirtatious with Miss Bingham during the carriage picnic at the Edison lighting event, when he learned about Miss Bingham’s mother’s very nice place in Newport. I think it will be a close call, and I also suspect that the plot line for Marian will develop into True Love™ between her and Larry Russell. Could anything else piss off the two families more? Hey, there’s nothing else on on Monday nights. 🤷‍♀️ ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gilded-age-on-hbo-max-open-spoilers/958668/69 "2022-03-16T01:04:30Z")
God, what a horrible show! (I haven’t missed an episode). It’s almost as bad as _Downton Abbey_ (I watched all 6 seasons). The characters don’t talk like real people would talk. They don’t behave like real people would behave. The rich people are idiots and the servants are children. And what’s the big tragedy about being disgraced or getting a bad reference? The is America in the 19th Century; just move one town over and change your name. And I guess forging a letter of reference would be right out unless you were some kind of _stenographer_ or something! Stupid, stupid, stupid show! And I can’t wait for the next episode…_sigh_. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gilded-age-on-hbo-max-open-spoilers/958668/70 "2022-03-16T07:59:16Z")
I think you’ve encapsulated my feelings entirely. Awful and unmissable. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gilded-age-on-hbo-max-open-spoilers/958668/71 "2022-03-16T15:00:49Z")
I’m still wondering about real-life analogues for the characters. So in the most recent episode, as Peggy Scott was talking to Agnes, I wondered if she’s later meant to be a famous journalist like [Ida Wells](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ida_B._Wells). ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gilded-age-on-hbo-max-open-spoilers/958668/72 "2022-03-22T03:05:54Z")
The van Rhijn party were totally slumming it not taking a carriage to cross the street. ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gilded-age-on-hbo-max-open-spoilers/958668/73 "2022-03-22T08:49:38Z")
And narrowly missing the horse shit pile. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gilded-age-on-hbo-max-open-spoilers/958668/74 "2022-03-22T17:29:05Z")
So the Russells have seemingly climbed the mountain, Marian is free to fall for Larry (which, knowing Fellowes, will take an inordinately long time even while everyone in the audience knows it’s going there) and Agnes will continue to purse her lips in disapproval. The only thing really dramatic in the offing is Peggy going in search of her son, which, again knowing Fellowes, will probably be dispatched within a single episode. Perhaps most interesting is Raikes. It feels like Fellowes tried to have it both ways, with him throwing Marian over as predicted, but apparently was not stringing her along. He just … lost his nerve? Seems a kind of wishy-washy place for that thread to end up, but at least it’s over. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gilded-age-on-hbo-max-open-spoilers/958668/75 "2022-03-22T19:01:31Z")
> [@Nonsuch](#): > > Perhaps most interesting is Raikes. It feels like Fellowes tried to have it both ways, with him throwing Marian over as predicted, but apparently was not stringing her along. He just … lost his nerve? Seems a kind of wishy-washy place for that thread to end up, but at least it’s over. Yes! All the time he pursued Marian he was saying money doesn’t matter, and at the last minute he changed his tune. Why? We deserved some better reason for this major reversal. A small point that annoyed me was the dismissal of the chef the day before the big ball. What in the world was Mrs. Russell thinking? If the threat was that his wife would reveal he was from Wichita, how, and to whom? Was she a friend of Mrs. Astor? Anyway, why not just pay her off? To risk ruining the whole evening, and thereby all her work in building up her position for that? Made no sense. Has anyone heard when the second season will air? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gilded-age-on-hbo-max-open-spoilers/958668/76 "2022-03-22T19:19:13Z")
> [@Nonsuch](#): > > ’m in the weird position of enjoying the show even while thinking much of it doesn’t work very well — Marian, the ostensible protagonist, is one of the least interesting (and most poorly acted) roles; the downstairs plots are perfunctory; and the overall dynamics are very evidently recycled from _Downton Abbey._ And yet, Christine Baranski and Carrie Coon, dressed to the nines and dispensing withering put-downs to all and sundry? Yeah. And her romance with Raikes is predictable. Her aunts would be setting her up with several eligible bachelors by now, she would have many choices, not just one. > [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > Just got through that episode. It was made clear that Agnes is pretty far to the progressive side when it comes to race relative to others in high society. Yes, but I think only because Miss Scott doesn’t try and get into High Society. She is accepted as a secretary and newspaper writer, not as a equal. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gilded-age-on-hbo-max-open-spoilers/958668/77 "2022-03-22T19:19:33Z")
> [@Nonsuch](#): > > So the Russells have seemingly climbed the mountain, Marian is free to fall for Larry (which, knowing Fellowes, will take an inordinately long time even while everyone in the audience knows it’s going there) and Agnes will continue to purse her lips in disapproval. The only thing really dramatic in the offing is Peggy going in search of her son, which, again knowing Fellowes, will probably be dispatched within a single episode. There might be a lot more than just Peggy going in search of her son that’s been hinted at. There was a quick exchange between Bertha Russell and Mrs. Astor, where Astor asks why, when the festivities of the grand ball are over, she should not ruin Mrs. Russell. A lot of folks including the haughty Astor were blackmailed into attending the grand ball. Russell replies that she and Astor are very much alike, and could be the best of friends. But which way will it go? Also, of course, if Marian falls for Larry, there will be major drama at the van Rhijn household. This thing is definitely in the category of “guilty pleasure” as one review put it – it’s a soap opera with superb production values, and definitely very enjoyable. Sure, a lot of it lacks subtlety, but so do Bugs Bunny cartoons, and I like them, too! 😀 ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gilded-age-on-hbo-max-open-spoilers/958668/78 "2022-03-22T21:01:18Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > A small point that annoyed me was the dismissal of the chef the day before the big ball. What in the world was Mrs. Russell thinking? If the threat was that his wife would reveal he was from Wichita, how, and to whom? Was she a friend of Mrs. Astor? Anyway, why not just pay her off? To risk ruining the whole evening, and thereby all her work in building up her position for that? Made no sense. I think she was looking to cut her loses by getting rid of him at once, which, while not ideal, would hopefully minimize the fallout. Realistic or not, she seemed to think just slotting another French chef in there would be enough. I also don’t think Mrs. Borden would have had a problem getting the news out. Were there society pages in the newspapers back then? That story would have sold a few extra copies. And if she just knocked on Mrs. Astor’s door and told Hefty to tell the mistress that she had dirt on Mrs. Russell, I feel like Mrs. Astor would have let her in. And I don’t think paying her off was an option, mainly because she didn’t want money, she wanted a reconciliation (even if it was only because Borden was now a success). But either way, the Russells, both Mr. and Mrs., don’t seem to be the giving-in-to-blackmail types. I mean, don’t get me wrong, the whole storyline was insanely contrived (to say nothing of being a one-episode ripoff version of the Mr. and Mrs. Bates storyline), but in the context of the show I think it played out as ok as it ever was going to. Plus, it gave a lesson to Mrs. Russell about the importance of loyalty. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lantern2/32/3010_2.png) [@Lantern2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern2)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gilded-age-on-hbo-max-open-spoilers/958668/79 "2022-03-22T21:04:17Z")
Nancy Astor being forced to call on Mrs Russell for an invitation for her daughter is very much from the history books as per the Wiki quote from post 30. It confirms that Mrs Russell is indeed based on Alva Belmont. Sadly no Electric Light dress which is a bit surprising. I think the plotline of Mrs Russell being upstaged by her own sister-in-law at her moment of supreme triumph would have worked very well for the show. Possibly the writers thought the dress was just too ludicrous ? > **[Vanderbilt Ball – how a costume ball changed New York elite society](https://blog.mcny.org/2013/08/06/vanderbilt-ball-how-a-costume-ball-changed-new-york-elite-society/)** > > In the spring of 1883, the solemnity of Lent didn’t stand a chance against the social event on the mind of all of New York’s elite society:  Mrs. W. K. Vanderbilt’s fancy dress ball. The invi… BTW I found this post about the party and it turns out the Electric Light dress wasn’t the craziest one; check out the cat dress worn by someone called Miss Kate Fearing Strong. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2022, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gilded-age-on-hbo-max-open-spoilers/958668/80 "2022-03-23T14:41:57Z")
Reading that article, I’m also surprised there was no electric dress! They went through the trouble of putting 5 boys in horse masks and having them dance, but no electric dress. Shame ☹ I was surprised that the ball ended in daylight. Then I was surprised to read in the article it was a school night! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gilded-age-on-hbo-max-open-spoilers/958668.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gilded-age-on-hbo-max-open-spoilers/958668.md?page=5)