# The Giving Tree - Cute story, or sociopathic mirror? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 24, 2008, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-cute-story-or-sociopathic-mirror/469304 "2008-10-24T04:10:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-cute-story-or-sociopathic-mirror/469304/1 "2008-10-24T04:10:07Z")
For those who might not be familiar, here the text online for free. Unfortunately it doesn’t have the original illustrations. [The Giving Tree by Shel Silverstein](http://www.atel.org.uk/the_giving_tree.htm) As a child I hated this story. I was furious with the boy for being so greedy. I was mad at the tree for being so complacent. Further, it felt like an assault on nature. Just take take take, and there will be no consequences. Even as an adult this story depresses me. Is there any other way to read it, or is it truly a depressing tale of greed and submission? Or is this merely my own jaded view not allowing me to see a deep unique love? Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-cute-story-or-sociopathic-mirror/469304/2 "2008-10-24T04:14:03Z")
I agree - even as a kid, I thought the boy in that story was a complete dick. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-cute-story-or-sociopathic-mirror/469304/3 "2008-10-24T04:16:19Z")
A very ugly book. I hated it as a kid. I hate thinking about it. Mean and nasty. ---
**Author:** ![Vihaga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Vihaga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vihaga)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-cute-story-or-sociopathic-mirror/469304/4 "2008-10-24T04:21:23Z")
I always liked it. It’s a fabulous cautionary tale, imo. /edit: My opinion may be colored by the fact that I was never exposed to it when I was very young. It is kind of creepy for a children’s book. ---
**Author:** ![Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-cute-story-or-sociopathic-mirror/469304/5 "2008-10-24T04:22:41Z")
I would like to agree with you **Vihaga** , but nowhere do I see the text suggesting any caution. The boy is happy. The tree is happy. Everything works out perfect. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Woodhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@Miss\_Woodhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Woodhouse)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-cute-story-or-sociopathic-mirror/469304/6 "2008-10-24T04:27:20Z")
I vote creepy. It’s seems to be the very definition of a codependent relationship. Sadly, I’ve heard this one read from a church pulpit before. It just seems wrong then too. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-cute-story-or-sociopathic-mirror/469304/7 "2008-10-24T04:29:28Z")
Is anyone a better searcher than me? I started this same OP a while ago. ---
**Author:** ![Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-cute-story-or-sociopathic-mirror/469304/8 "2008-10-24T04:41:27Z")
But what is the message? That’s what I don’t get. Who are we suppose to empathize with? What virtue is being displayed? ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-cute-story-or-sociopathic-mirror/469304/9 "2008-10-24T04:44:12Z")
The message is that if you don’t watch it, people will suck you dry. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-cute-story-or-sociopathic-mirror/469304/10 "2008-10-24T04:53:20Z")
> [@Miss\_Woodhouse](#): > > I vote creepy. It’s seems to be the very definition of a codependent relationship. > > Sadly, I’ve heard this one read from a church pulpit before. It just seems wrong then too. I got it in Hebrew school. Doesn’t work any better there. ---
**Author:** ![Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-cute-story-or-sociopathic-mirror/469304/11 "2008-10-24T04:55:03Z")
The final line is “and the tree was happy” There is no indication in the text that either party is behaving poorly. I had never considered the story in relation to a parent/child relationship. The tree clearly is a parent, and is giving to his child unconditionally. It makes sense here, in that a parent’s love should be there forever unconditionally. I would like to see a little reciprocation though. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-cute-story-or-sociopathic-mirror/469304/12 "2008-10-24T04:58:47Z")
It’s a satire. About codependency. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-cute-story-or-sociopathic-mirror/469304/13 "2008-10-24T05:03:46Z")
> [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](#): > > But what is the message? That’s what I don’t get. Who are we suppose to empathize with? What virtue is being displayed? I’m not sure there is a straightforward message. I love this book for that reason. Shel Silverstein does not treat his children readers as automatons to be programmed by children’s literature. His literature is tinged with a subversive touch, and he treats his readers as individuals who are capable of drawing their own conclusions. In my opinion, the book is clearly meant to encourage discussion and thinking, and not be a straightforward morality play. Personally, my interpretation would lean towards the codependency angle, but I do think the “meaning” has been left intentionally ambiguous. ---
**Author:** ![brossa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brossa/32/3040_2.png) [@brossa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brossa)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-cute-story-or-sociopathic-mirror/469304/14 "2008-10-24T05:13:40Z")
It is an awful, awful, awful story, designed only to make you feel bad about yourself. Even Jesus Christ Himself would feel like a shitheel after reading it. My wife thinks that it is a sweet story about unconditional love, but I can’t stand to see it on our kids’ bookshelf; I take it off and hide it when I see it, but it keeps turning up like a bad penny. I would throw it away, but then I would just feel worse about myself. It is pure pharmaceutical grade guilt fuel. My wife wanted to know why I hate the book so much but I was physically unable to talk about it without my throat closing up. It’s the anti-tasp: just the sight of the cover can stimulate your despair center from ten paces away. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-cute-story-or-sociopathic-mirror/469304/15 "2008-10-24T05:21:40Z")
That story has always creeped me out. I don’t like to read it. (I think it did my mom too, since we had plenty of Silverstein on our bookshelves but not that one.) A t-shirt that I have long coveted states something like: “The Giving Tree: promoting arborcide and greed since 1964” ---
**Author:** ![Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazle_Weatherfield)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-cute-story-or-sociopathic-mirror/469304/16 "2008-10-24T06:49:22Z")
Where can I get that t-shirt, please? ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-cute-story-or-sociopathic-mirror/469304/17 "2008-10-24T07:50:35Z")
[Lots of people have opinions about it](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Giving_Tree) > [@](#): > > As Timothy Jackson, a professor of Religious Studies at Stanford University put it: > > “ Is this a sad tale? Well, it is sad in the same way that life is sad. We are all needy, and, if we are lucky and any good, we grow old using others and getting used up. Tears fall in our lives like leaves from a tree. Our finitude is not something to be regretted or despised, however; it is what makes giving (and receiving) possible. The more you blame the boy, the more you have to fault human existence. The more you blame the tree, the more you have to fault the very idea of parenting. Should the tree’s giving be contingent on the boy’s gratitude? If it were, if fathers and mothers waited on reciprocity before caring for their young, then we would all be doomed. ” > > Jackson, linking the story to the human condition, asserts that readers ought to identify with both the boy and the tree. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-cute-story-or-sociopathic-mirror/469304/18 "2008-10-24T07:57:23Z")
I’d heard of this tale, but never read it until now. God, that’s creepy. Creepy in the way cartoon cow mascots for fast-food restaurants are creepy. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-cute-story-or-sociopathic-mirror/469304/19 "2008-10-24T11:50:53Z")
Not cute at all. I never liked it and think it is a horrible story to read to children. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-cute-story-or-sociopathic-mirror/469304/20 "2008-10-24T12:59:55Z")
It is not a book for the child – it is a book for the _parent_. Even worse, it is a book that makes martyr parents feel superior about themselves. The entire book reinforces how wonderful and selfless and whatever the parent (= Giving Tree) is. Meanwhile, the message it conveys to the child is that they are like the horrid little monster, forcing their parent to chop themselves up. Parents who like this book seem to be self-centered, needy, and with a martyr complex. All the ones I’ve met who rave about how wonderful the book is are the type whose entire life revolves around their children, don’t really have any identity apart from their children, and tend to try to relive their own life _through_ their children. It’s bad, bad stuff. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-cute-story-or-sociopathic-mirror/469304.md?page=2)