# "The Giving Tree" - What a horrible lesson it teaches **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 19, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-what-a-horrible-lesson-it-teaches/635190 "2012-09-19T16:58:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-what-a-horrible-lesson-it-teaches/635190/41 "2012-09-19T19:41:04Z")
Although I think _The Giving Tree_ is a rather awful book, it’s not nearly as horrible as the parents who gush about how wonderful a metaphor for parenting it is. And not just because the tree doesn’t actually do anything to actually parent the child (maybe, teach him not to be such a greedy little shit). No, it’s horrible because the people who gush about it only do so to stealth brag about what a wonderful parent _they_ are, implying that they nobly give and give as their children take everything from them. I’ve always kind of wanted to ask one of them which Giving Tree gave them the lumber for that cross they keep nailing themselves up on for everyone to see. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-what-a-horrible-lesson-it-teaches/635190/42 "2012-09-19T19:41:40Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > If it isn’t teaching the lesson to kids that they should take, take, take, it is laying a guilt trip on them for taking anything from their parents at all. That sounds like projection to me. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-what-a-horrible-lesson-it-teaches/635190/43 "2012-09-19T19:43:53Z")
To my mind, any story that can arouse this much emotion and have this many people read such contradictory things into it must be pretty good. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-what-a-horrible-lesson-it-teaches/635190/44 "2012-09-19T19:48:31Z")
> [@The Giving Tree - Cute story, or sociopathic mirror?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-cute-story-or-sociopathic-mirror/469304/23): > > You definitely get a different spin on the book after you have kids. > > There’s a reason the story’s called **The Giving Tree** and not **The Taking Boy**. The tree, not the boy, is what the story is about. I think some folks lose sight of that because we’re used to humans being the central characters in our stories. The boy is just a necessary element to tell the story of the tree. Focusing on him too much makes you lose sight of what the book is really about. > > When I was younger, I remember feeling that the kid was just a greedy bastard and the tree was a total doormat and an idiot. Now, I have a kid, and I think I understand: the tree (metaphorical parent) is willing to give every bit of itself for the boy (metaphorical child). What makes the tree happy is being with the child, and there’s nothing the boy can take from the tree that will decrease that happiness. > > Before I became a dad, I always heard about parents who didn’t have enough money to feed the whole family, so they’d go hungry and give everything they had to their child so she could eat. I never understood that. Now, I think I know why people would gladly suffer for their kids. She really does mean the world to me, and I would give every part of myself for her. And I’d be happy. Freaky that you came up with the same parallel titles that I used four years ago… ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-what-a-horrible-lesson-it-teaches/635190/45 "2012-09-19T19:49:33Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > I’m curious about this. You hate it because it’s the story of a selfish boy and a co-dependent tree, and that sort of story bores you? Or you hate it because you think book was trying to teach you a didactic message about how you should be giving like the tree? I hate it because the kid is the most selfish little bastard in literature, and I despise unlikeable characters. > [@](#): > > I guarantee you that Shel Silverstein, the guy who wrote the book, did not write the book to teach kids about the virtues of selflessness. Yeah, I’m aware of who wrote “The Giving Tree”. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-what-a-horrible-lesson-it-teaches/635190/46 "2012-09-19T19:57:20Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > No, it’s horrible because the people who gush about it only do so to stealth brag about what a wonderful parent _they_ are, implying that they nobly give and give as their children take everything from them. How many people do you know who go around gushing about _The Giving Tree_? ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-what-a-horrible-lesson-it-teaches/635190/47 "2012-09-19T20:04:38Z")
> [@Max\_Torque](#): > > Freaky that you came up with the same parallel titles that I used four years ago… That is pretty weird. I guess I should have searched for an already-started thread. If I had, I would have seen this gem (posted by **Cluricaun** ): > [@](#): > > That book messed me up really bad as a kid, especially when I tried to make a boat out of my mother. mmm ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-what-a-horrible-lesson-it-teaches/635190/48 "2012-09-19T20:08:42Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > How many people do you know who go around gushing about _The Giving Tree_? Now that my nephews and niece are older, I don’t run into many anymore. When they were 2-3, just about every birthday party when someone started a conversation about reading to kids, there’d be a Giving Tree martyr there. ---
**Author:** ![tullsterx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tullsterx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tullsterx)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-what-a-horrible-lesson-it-teaches/635190/49 "2012-09-19T20:09:37Z")
It seems like a strange story to me. But also, I think that it might seem strange because more and more people in “more-developed” cultures find the idea of self-sacrifice for the family or for the children to be passe. And I find that kind of disturbing too. Do we have so many single-parent homes because only a fool would sacrifice his/her wants and needs for the family? ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-what-a-horrible-lesson-it-teaches/635190/50 "2012-09-19T20:10:19Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That sounds like projection to me. Well, how nice of you to say so. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-what-a-horrible-lesson-it-teaches/635190/51 "2012-09-19T20:12:48Z")
I’m always amused when I hear parents or teachers talk about this wonderful children’s book. I agree that it’s crap. Mostly because I think it’s cloying and sentimental. I also think it’s funny that these people (the fans) apparently aren’t aware of Silverstein’s considerable body of work as a songwriter, including such memorable songs as “I Saw Polly in a Porny,” “Freaking at the Freaker’s Ball,” “Stacy Brown Got Two” (Stacy was a very well-endowed man), “The Word’s Greatest Smoke-Off,” “I Got Stoned and I Missed It,” and plenty of others that might make them feel that Silverstein was perhaps not really just a warm-hearted author of a beloved childrens’ book. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-what-a-horrible-lesson-it-teaches/635190/52 "2012-09-19T20:14:34Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I don’t. There are plenty of people like the boy in the world. Allowing them a free pass to take advantage of you and take everything you have is just dumb and not admirable at all. Other people don’t get to determine who you love. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-what-a-horrible-lesson-it-teaches/635190/53 "2012-09-19T20:24:21Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Well, how nice of you to say so. Sorry if that came off as overly personal, but saying the book describes a particular relationship if very different from saying it endorses it. The book shows a relationship where the boy takes and takes and takes as the tree gives and gives and gives; that’s not the same as saying the book _teaches_ or _guilt trips_. That seems to be responsible for a lot of the disagreement here- people feel that either this book is teaching a bad lesson to kids or it’s guilting parents, and while I’m not sure about some of these interpretations I don’t think it’s trying to do either one. ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-what-a-horrible-lesson-it-teaches/635190/54 "2012-09-19T20:37:31Z")
It’s a horrible, sad book. But life is horrible and sad. Parents are going to end up as stumps, and children are going to grow miserable and old no matter what their parents do. Some people cling to the supposed value of being selfless as a way of avoiding the horror of life, and the basic message of the book is that no, you can’t escape it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-what-a-horrible-lesson-it-teaches/635190/55 "2012-09-19T20:39:06Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > I hate it because the kid is the most selfish little bastard in literature, and I despise unlikeable characters. You must have hated Star Wars, with that horrible Darth Vader character. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-what-a-horrible-lesson-it-teaches/635190/56 "2012-09-19T20:40:59Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > I’m always amused when I hear parents or teachers talk about this wonderful children’s book. I agree that it’s crap. Mostly because I think it’s cloying and sentimental. Did you read the same book as the rest of us? This is a cloying sentimental happy-happy joy-joy book–about a tree that destroys itself trying to please a miserable little boy? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-what-a-horrible-lesson-it-teaches/635190/57 "2012-09-19T20:47:58Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > You must have hated Star Wars, with that horrible Darth Vader character. Darth Vader wasn’t an unlikeable character. Tell me - why do you think I should find that little cretin in this book likeable? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-what-a-horrible-lesson-it-teaches/635190/58 "2012-09-19T20:56:19Z")
Its like a stereotype of Jewish Guilt. “I gave you everything but do you call? Do you write? 36 hours of labor…” ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-what-a-horrible-lesson-it-teaches/635190/59 "2012-09-19T20:57:56Z")
While we’re burning children’s books, throw Goodnight Moon on there as well. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-what-a-horrible-lesson-it-teaches/635190/60 "2012-09-19T21:01:34Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Darth Vader wasn’t an unlikeable character. Tell me - why do you think I should find that little cretin in this book likeable? Of course I don’t think you should find the boy “likeable”. He isn’t likeable. I’m confused by your assertion that you don’t like things with unlikeable characters. Darth Vader is an unlikeable character, he blew up Princess Leia’s whole planet. That means you shouldn’t like Star Wars. The boy in the Giving Tree is a selfish unlikeable jerk. Darth Vader is a mass murdering unlikeable jerk. You hate the Giving Tree and Star Wars because both have unlikeable characters. Or maybe I’m teasing you a bit. The Giving Tree is a pretty dark fable, and if you didn’t like it that’s a perfectly reasonable response. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-what-a-horrible-lesson-it-teaches/635190.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-giving-tree-what-a-horrible-lesson-it-teaches/635190.md?page=4)