# "The Glory of the Punishment" (lake of fire) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 12, 2013, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-glory-of-the-punishment-lake-of-fire/676149 "2013-12-12T09:18:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-glory-of-the-punishment-lake-of-fire/676149/1 "2013-12-12T09:18:37Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/tzynfCuJRBY/hqdefault.jpg "The Glory of the Punishment?") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzynfCuJRBY) > [@](#): > > A crime is so great against God - > His glory is so great and so awesome > That for us to disobey Him - > The only fitting punishment that we know > The only fitting punishment that can righteously be given by God. > Do you know what that left me with? > It left me with - there’s the glory of the punishment > then I started thinking about how glorious He must truly be > if that is the punishment for rejecting His glory > for falling short of His glory > if that is the punishment > forevermore without rest > where you become pain itself > how great truly is His glory > The penalty is great - the Lake of Fire - because the crime is great > … the crime is great - I just went well Lord, how great are you. > That’s the penalty and it’s forever > men become pain - how great are you. I can’t believe this guy… ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-glory-of-the-punishment-lake-of-fire/676149/2 "2013-12-12T12:12:33Z")
What can’t you believe about him? Guy just likes the concept of people being tortured forever. That’s not really a new idea. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-glory-of-the-punishment-lake-of-fire/676149/3 "2013-12-12T13:55:30Z")
This “Lord” guy sounds not-so-great to me. Kind of an asshole, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-glory-of-the-punishment-lake-of-fire/676149/4 "2013-12-12T21:59:44Z")
Every now and then, I find myself wishing there were a just and good God. Because, come Judgement Day, some of his followers are going to get such a surprise… “You think burning in fire is a good idea? Well, I don’t…but since you put yourself in my place, and made my judgements for me, who am I to contradict you? Just sing out when you’ve changed your mind.” ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-glory-of-the-punishment-lake-of-fire/676149/5 "2013-12-12T22:05:03Z")
There’s a fine line between worship and Stockholm syndrome. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-glory-of-the-punishment-lake-of-fire/676149/6 "2013-12-13T02:44:20Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > What can’t you believe about him? Guy just likes the concept of people being tortured forever. That’s not really a new idea. Yes it is a old idea (well it started in the New Testament - or from Greek interpretations of it) - but this guy thinks that because of it God must be marvelous… ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-glory-of-the-punishment-lake-of-fire/676149/7 "2013-12-13T21:36:35Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > Yes it is a old idea (well it started in the New Testament - or from Greek interpretations of it) - but this guy thinks that because of it God must be marvelous… This god guy’s been doing this nasty shit much longer than that. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-glory-of-the-punishment-lake-of-fire/676149/8 "2013-12-13T22:04:07Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > There’s a fine line between worship and Stockholm syndrome. Assuming there is any line at all. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-glory-of-the-punishment-lake-of-fire/676149/9 "2013-12-13T22:39:47Z")
I Fell Into A Burning Lake Of Fire I Went Down, Down, Down And The Flames Went Higher And It Burns, Burns, Burns The Lake Of Fire The Lake Of Fire God Is A Jealous Thing And He Makes A Fiery Lake Bound By Eternal Hate I Fell Into A Lake Of Fire ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-glory-of-the-punishment-lake-of-fire/676149/10 "2013-12-13T23:00:02Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > I Fell Into A Burning Lake Of Fire > I Went Down, Down, Down > And The Flames Went Higher > And It Burns, Burns, Burns > The Lake Of Fire > The Lake Of Fire > > God Is A Jealous Thing > And He Makes A Fiery Lake > Bound By Eternal Hate > I Fell Into A Lake Of Fire Are you mocking Johnny Cash? ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-glory-of-the-punishment-lake-of-fire/676149/11 "2013-12-13T23:07:39Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > This god guy’s been doing this nasty shit much longer than that. Somebody’s been reading his Oolon Colluphid. But really, what if there isn’t a nice God out there? Or what if this nasty, judgmental bastard IS the nice one? Best to kiss the nice one’s ass, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-glory-of-the-punishment-lake-of-fire/676149/12 "2013-12-13T23:09:33Z")
[Lake of Fire](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRaZWK_MwHY), my favourite version. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-glory-of-the-punishment-lake-of-fire/676149/13 "2013-12-13T23:43:16Z")
Could be worse. Could be Detroit. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-glory-of-the-punishment-lake-of-fire/676149/14 "2013-12-14T00:36:02Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Are you mocking Johnny Cash? The man in black is not mocked. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-glory-of-the-punishment-lake-of-fire/676149/15 "2013-12-14T03:12:08Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > [Lake of Fire](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRaZWK_MwHY), my favourite version. Naw, I like the [Nirvana](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgvUaOuEdwA) one better. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-glory-of-the-punishment-lake-of-fire/676149/16 "2013-12-14T03:17:54Z")
As for the hot place – as we say in the Church of the SubGenius: “The difference between Hell and Heaven is which end of the pitchfork you’re on.” From [_Revelation X: The “Bob” Apocryphon,_](http://www.amazon.com/Revelation-Apocryphon-Hidden-Teachings-Deuterocanonical/dp/1560259558/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-2010750-0004000?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1192999703&sr=8-1) Chapter 8: “Heaven and Hell”: > [@](#): > > Everything written regarding Hell in all bibles, from the Zoroastrian up through Dante to Chick Comics, is literally true (except the name of the author). The traditional Hell exists, complete with Lake of Fire, demons, and eternal torment; they aren’t lying about that. What they don’t tell you is that _only religious people go there._ > > It’s a rare SubGenius that ends up in this Normal Hell, the lowest rung of the Ladder of Beforelives. THE HELL CLAUSE states that _Hell is reserved for those who believe in it, and the lowest Circle is for those who think that if they don’t believe in it, they’ll go there._ Hell is JHVH-1’s revenge on those who insult His intelligence by thinking He is as simple-minded, cruel and vengeful as THEY are. The Devil’s job is to pester them, to milk out every last drop of human faith and credence. Satan manages Hell, and it’s a very busy place these days, but his responsibilities regarding earthly life cover only religious nuts. JHVH-1 assigned him to create some kind of secondary Hell on earth, so Satan devised the idea of multiple religions, all believing in his existence but hating each other even more than they hate him. (In the end it doesn’t really matter whether those Normals are “good” or “bad” in life; Satan and JHVH-1 divvy up the souls 50-50, _at random.)_ > > \ > > Pink Heaven (frequently misidentified as Christian Heaven or Islamic Paradise) is nothing but a more sophisticated Hell, with air conditioning. In many ways, it is far worse. At least in Hell, you know where you stand. The sheep in Heaven can’t even guess how utterly doomed they truly are. > > “Heaven” is only the second rung up the Beforelife ladder, and, like Hell, is reserved for believers. It consists of an _absence_ not only of pain, _but also of pleasure._ > > Great deal, huh? You’re damned if you do, and damned if you don’t. Disobedient souls burn in Hell forever, but _obedient_ souls “belong to God.” As if making you an employee all your LIFE wasn’t bad enough, you’re enslaved in the AFTERLIFE as well! You get all the joy of a fundamentalist’s lifestyle, with no hope of release – not even death! > > \ > > In “Heaven” there dwell certain hungry, rapacious predator spirits, called **Theocrats,** which vampirize the PPQF of weaker spirits in order to “live” forever at the expense of their victims. > > > [@](#): > > > > "The Theocrats enslave other spirits to provide psychic energy, just as slaves or employees on Earth provide physical labor . . . They obtain these victims by posing as gods and persuading the religious believers to come to them voluntarily after death thinking they are entering “eternal bliss in Heaven.” > > > > "Many notorious tyrants, conquerors, evil religious leaders, black magicians and criminals have become Theocrats after death, but so have some saints and benign geniuses. Power corrupts and the prospect of achieving immortality corrupts even more. Many people with highly developed souls, whose earthly lives were lived quite ethically, chose to become Theocrats after death . . . This has been especially true for people who were religiously devout, then found out the horrible truth about the gods after death. > > > > "The daily activities of a Fundamentalist Theocratic band organized as Heaven are similar to a church service as such sects hold them on Earth, except that they go on perpetually. The Theocrat in charge poses as the Lord God Jehovah, and subordinate Theocrats pose as Christ, various Angels and Apostles, and so forth. “God” quotes the same Biblical passages and preaches the same sermons as preachers in the same sect do on Earth, and the congregation joins in singing the same hymns. . . . The Theocratic leaders then channel this collective psychic energy . . . For instance, there are dead Christians who think they are in Heaven, sitting around the throne of Jehovah “eternally singing his praises,” when they’re really just his slaves and possibly his dinner as well. Now you understand the real significance of “Holy Communion.” > > > > ". . . As fanatical belief in organized religion declines in the modern era, the Theocrats have even devised ways to persuade atheists and agnostics to join Theocratic bands after death. The most common is simply to invite them to join what appears to be a community of spirits that includes some of their previously-deceased relatives or friends, or some famous person they greatly admire . . . There are also “Heavens” whose “gods” claim to be politicians, movie stars, writers, scientists, rock stars, _or even fictional characters."_ > > – excerpted from Kyle Griffith’s _War in Heaven._ > > The most insidiously cruel aspect of Pink Heaven/Normal Hell is that _it’s all self-inflicted punishment._ Nothing happens to those souls that they didn’t ask for, that wasn’t self-devised down to the smallest detail. And nastiest of all, just as their store of anguish is about to be _used up,_ they are TOLD they _could_ escape _if only they would stop believing – BUT THAT ONLY MAKES IT WORSE._ For, there they are, right in the thick of it, with flames searing their skin, or etheric vampires slowly devouring their very essence . . . so _it’s just a bit difficult_ NOT to believe in it. But there is hope! Now you can **save** your soul from Heaven! Just send it with $30 for shipping & handling costs to: [The Church of the SubGenius](http://www.subgenius.com/) c/o Reverend Ivan Stang P.O. Box 181417 Cleveland Heights, OH 44118-1417 Eternal salvation guaranteed – **OR TRIPLE YOUR MONEY BACK!** 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-glory-of-the-punishment-lake-of-fire/676149/17 "2013-12-14T14:19:21Z")
> [@The Great Sun Jester](#): > > But really, what if there isn’t a nice God out there? Or what if this nasty, judgmental bastard IS the nice one? I’ll save you a seat on the bus. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-glory-of-the-punishment-lake-of-fire/676149/18 "2013-12-14T15:09:40Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > [http://youtu.be/tzynfCuJRBY](http://youtu.be/tzynfCuJRBY) “Repent, lest ye spend eternity as a Bloomin’ Onion, mate!” ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-glory-of-the-punishment-lake-of-fire/676149/19 "2013-12-20T00:19:17Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > The man in black is not mocked. That goes for Roy, too! ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-glory-of-the-punishment-lake-of-fire/676149/20 "2013-12-20T17:30:23Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > The man in black is not mocked. waitaminnit? Johnny Cash was Randall Flagg? it all makes sense now. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-glory-of-the-punishment-lake-of-fire/676149.md?page=2)