# The Godfather (I & II): Why are they so well regarded? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 14, 2018, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-godfather-i-ii-why-are-they-so-well-regarded/821318 "2018-09-14T02:09:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-godfather-i-ii-why-are-they-so-well-regarded/821318/21 "2018-09-14T20:19:02Z")
No one has mentioned the music yet, which is beautiful and remains instantly recognizable. It was nominated for an Oscar, but got thrown out on a technicality. But, the main thing is that the movies draw you in. The acting and development of the characters just makes you want to know what happens to them. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-godfather-i-ii-why-are-they-so-well-regarded/821318/22 "2018-09-14T20:40:07Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I do think that line reading of Keaton’s is the worst part of two nearly flawless movies. To be fair, I don’t know that there was a good way to read those lines which were straight out of daytime soap opera. I think Shire is also a bit savaged given her character doesn’t have much of an arc except going from abused wife to bad mother and then duitful sister. The films really give very little for the female characters to do; they’re all just mothers, wives, and whores. Although the Godfather films are set in a Sicilian mafia milieu and the novel on which it was based was a pretty trashy pulp novel written to fictionalize some fairly sensational rumors about various Mafia figures, Coppola’s films were framed in the themes of a Greek tragedy, with Michael as the flawed figure who destories what he most desires to protect, and fails to livd up to the legend of his father. The real figures in the Mafia would never speak as gracefully and obliquely as Tom Hagan does to Frank Pentangeli, or be as prescient and strategic as the Don in anticipating his opposition. For a film that is an actual portrayal of Mafia life, _Goodfellas_ or _Donnie Brasco_, about short-sighted, petty people who frequently let personal conflicts cloud their judgments, are closer to the mark. As for why the films are so revered, they create a sense of place and time that utterly draws in the viewer. They aren’t really period pieces, even though they are set in historical places periods like Ellis Island and Havana at the fall of the Batista regime. The acting, story, and cinematography aside, they are almost fantasy-like in their nostalgia, creating their own world. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-godfather-i-ii-why-are-they-so-well-regarded/821318/23 "2018-09-14T21:09:44Z")
For what it is worth, I read a few places that real mobsters loved the movies. A funny tidbit - on the Sopranos sometimes they would just call them “1” or “2” ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-godfather-i-ii-why-are-they-so-well-regarded/821318/24 "2018-09-14T22:24:20Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > And I have yet to see the sequel, which I’ve heard from many is even better, which to me seems impossible. At the very least it is _as good_. It has a rather different feel in part which I won’t bother to spoil, but I think very much reflects the different characters of Vito vs. Michael Corleone. I preferred that first film at one time, but now I really do like the second better. But even if you don’t end up liking it as much, I _strongly_ recommend seeing it if you were captivated by the first film. Other than the undoubtedly deliberately different tone( at times )the two films fit together seamlessly as a single story. It’s the most literal and genuine part I and II in terms of a rich storyline of any film and its sequel ever filmed. IMHO. The third has a few good moments, but is ultimately is a lot more awkward and missable. It’s not as bad as you may have heard, it is just that it falls from a greater height compared to the first two. ETA: You know what? You should just watch it tonight. No dilly-dallying ;). ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-godfather-i-ii-why-are-they-so-well-regarded/821318/25 "2018-09-14T23:09:59Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > The third has a few good moments, but is ultimately is a lot more awkward and missable. It’s not as bad as you may have heard, it is just that it falls from a greater height compared to the first two. I agree with that. I’ve only seen it a couple of times years ago but I thought then that the hate is only because of the comparison. I thought the journey of Andy Garcia from being Sonny to being Michael was well done and I think Garcia did a great job. Other parts were big misses. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-godfather-i-ii-why-are-they-so-well-regarded/821318/26 "2018-09-14T23:28:26Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > For what it is worth, I read a few places that real mobsters loved the movies. A funny tidbit - on the Sopranos sometimes they would just call them “1” or “2” [Silvio does Michael.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=242H7F8DKHA) ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-godfather-i-ii-why-are-they-so-well-regarded/821318/27 "2018-09-15T04:06:27Z")
It also helps to read the book too … ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-godfather-i-ii-why-are-they-so-well-regarded/821318/28 "2018-09-15T05:51:13Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > This is always important to remember. > > One big thing about _GFI_ was the “heroes” of the movie were very bad people. This just wasn’t a common thing back then. But it kicked off a ton of that sort of thing. Thanks, but one small quibble. What was new was that Michael emerged triumphant - apparently triumphant, that is. I’ve been watching old classics, and recently watched The Public Enemy and Little Caesar. In both cases the “hero” was the bad guy, but because of the time they both had to be shown as losing in the end. Not so in GF I. Plus, Vito dies at peace in his garden - something else that wouldn’t be allowed before. ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-godfather-i-ii-why-are-they-so-well-regarded/821318/29 "2018-09-15T09:02:39Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > The acting was hit and miss. Some great performances and some really bad ones too (e.g. Michael Corleones’ sister being a drama queen as an example of bad acting). Pacino, Brando, De Niro, Duvall and Cazale all at the top of their game and nine acting Oscar nominations over 2 films, but you’d categorize the acting as hit and miss? Are you really sure you’re not saying it insists upon itself? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-godfather-i-ii-why-are-they-so-well-regarded/821318/30 "2018-09-15T11:44:06Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Her histrionics at the end of “The Godfather” was not good acting although it seemed normal acting for “upset women” for that time. (Something that has always bugged me…seems around the 80’s actresses got a lot better at being pissed off on screen.) You seem to think that there is one way for women to behave ignoring cultural variation. The creative team were Italian and I trust that they understand their culture better than PC outsiders. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-godfather-i-ii-why-are-they-so-well-regarded/821318/31 "2018-09-15T13:27:20Z")
It marked a generational shift. It was the first masterpiece of a very specific generation of filmmakers (Coppola, Spielberg, Scorsese, Lucas). If you ever wonder where the dividing line between Old Hollywood and New Hollywood lies, you couldn’t pick a better turning point than **The Godfather.** Studios had spent the better part of a decade trying to find a winning formula to lure a “youth” demographic into the theaters by this point and their best efforts were **Easy Rider, The Graduate** and **Harold and Maude. The Godfather** is the one that finally clicked. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-godfather-i-ii-why-are-they-so-well-regarded/821318/32 "2018-09-15T15:56:59Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > You seem to think that there is one way for women to behave ignoring cultural variation. The creative team were Italian and I trust that they understand their culture better than PC outsiders. My aunt died young at 40. The second child my grandmother buried. I remember her sister at the funeral handing my grandmother a picture of her daughter who died at 6. Apparently the misery level wasn’t high enough already. I’ve seen Italian relatives throw themselves on caskets. I had relatives that followed the old country tradition of wearing black for the rest of their lives when the husband died. The “histrionics” did not seem out of place to me for a movie made in the 70s and set a few decades earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-godfather-i-ii-why-are-they-so-well-regarded/821318/33 "2018-09-15T16:41:59Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Thanks, but one small quibble. What was new was that Michael emerged triumphant - apparently triumphant, that is. I’ve been watching old classics, and recently watched The Public Enemy and Little Caesar. In both cases the “hero” was the bad guy, but because of the time they both had to be shown as losing in the end. Not so in GF I. Plus, Vito dies at peace in his garden - something else that wouldn’t be allowed before. The ‘apparently’ part is critical. One of the reasons that GF I is great is because it leads up to this dramatic montage of Michael wiping out all his opponents. In a lesser film, the viewer would see that as a glorious ‘victory’ for the hero and feel some satisfaction at his triumph. But in The Godfather, the viewer feels a sense of loss as Michael ‘wins’, because we can actually see that in winning the war he lost his soul. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-godfather-i-ii-why-are-they-so-well-regarded/821318/34 "2018-09-15T17:04:15Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > The ‘apparently’ part is critical. One of the reasons that GF I is great is because it leads up to this dramatic montage of Michael wiping out all his opponents. In a lesser film, the viewer would see that as a glorious ‘victory’ for the hero and feel some satisfaction at his triumph. But in The Godfather, the viewer feels a sense of loss as Michael ‘wins’, because we can actually see that in winning the war he lost his soul. That’s my family Kay. It’s not me. But in the end it’s him. And he’s better at it than all of them. So many great little moments that Coppola doesn’t hit you over the head with. Michael learns he’s suited for the life at the hospital. When he is lighting the cigarette with steady hands. One of many great silent moments. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-godfather-i-ii-why-are-they-so-well-regarded/821318/35 "2018-09-15T17:20:51Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > The ‘apparently’ part is critical. One of the reasons that GF I is great is because it leads up to this dramatic montage of Michael wiping out all his opponents. In a lesser film, the viewer would see that as a glorious ‘victory’ for the hero and feel some satisfaction at his triumph. But in The Godfather, the viewer feels a sense of loss as Michael ‘wins’, because we can actually see that in winning the war he lost his soul. And his family, because “A man who doesn’t spend time with his family can never be a real man.” Vito asipired to make the Corleone family legitimate through Michael, and Michael ultimately fails, not only to be truly legitimate (“Just when I thought I was out…they pull me back in!”) but even to keep his family intact. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-godfather-i-ii-why-are-they-so-well-regarded/821318/36 "2018-09-15T17:23:33Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Sonny, the hothead. Fredo, the ambitious moron. Michael, the reluctant family guy who then discovers his purpose while protecting his father. I’ve just realzed that the Bluths are the Corleones. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-godfather-i-ii-why-are-they-so-well-regarded/821318/37 "2018-09-15T17:26:32Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > The ‘apparently’ part is critical. One of the reasons that GF I is great is because it leads up to this dramatic montage of Michael wiping out all his opponents. In a lesser film, the viewer would see that as a glorious ‘victory’ for the hero and feel some satisfaction at his triumph. But in The Godfather, the viewer feels a sense of loss as Michael ‘wins’, because we can actually see that in winning the war he lost his soul. And it plays out in GF 2, also a great movie. But this shows how much more nuanced and subtle movies could be after the death of the Hays Office and the prohibition of endings that could show that “sin” triumphs. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-godfather-i-ii-why-are-they-so-well-regarded/821318/38 "2018-09-15T18:21:28Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > I’ve just realzed that the Bluths are the Corleones. Well, they are the Bizarro Corleones. I thought that was pretty obvious with Michael’s “What do we always say is the most important thing?” schtick. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-godfather-i-ii-why-are-they-so-well-regarded/821318/39 "2018-09-15T19:10:29Z")
I’ve read that Mario Puzo did 2 because he was regretful that 1 glorified the gangster life too much. Yes Michael did lose his soul as he became powerful, but how many people–especially young men–would look at that and think “Hell losing your soul would be worth it to be that Bad Ass!” At the end of 2 though, we see the true cost. Michael is still powerful, but he is broken and alone. I agree that it is basically a Greek tragedy. A larger than life person brought low by circumstances beyond his control and by his own hubris. [This scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj0lCWqSo1Q), where Copolla slowly zooms in to Pacino and we see his subtle transformation from the civilian in the family to a ruthless killer, is brilliant. You can see the transformation as he makes his decision, even though the other characters miss it. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-godfather-i-ii-why-are-they-so-well-regarded/821318/40 "2018-09-15T19:51:32Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > That’s my family Kay. It’s not me. > > But in the end it’s him. And he’s better at it than all of them. > > So many great little moments that Coppola doesn’t hit you over the head with. Michael learns he’s suited for the life at the hospital. When he is lighting the cigarette with steady hands. One of many great silent moments. that and getting hit by the in the next scene ……. although he denies it the apollonia episode pushes it even more but the sad thing is in the 3rd movie they drive home the fact of mikes failure when he dies alone in the snow with nothing but regret unlike how his father died …… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-godfather-i-ii-why-are-they-so-well-regarded/821318.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-godfather-i-ii-why-are-they-so-well-regarded/821318.md?page=3)