# The Golden Age of the West **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 24, 2010, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-golden-age-of-the-west/533575 "2010-03-24T03:32:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-golden-age-of-the-west/533575/201 "2010-03-31T23:41:25Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Those kinds of comments aren’t allowed outside of the Pit, **Guinastasia**. Please don’t do this again. Sorry 'bout that. And sorry, **RNATB**. I guess I got a little too heated. **Bridget Burke** , I wonder if he’s ever heard of [John William Waterhouse](http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=j.%20w.%20waterhouse&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi), or other Pre-Raphaelites! Quite a few nudes there. And **Curtis** , let me point out to you – there was QUITE a bit of porn in the Victorian age. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-golden-age-of-the-west/533575/202 "2010-04-01T00:36:14Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > Erg. The nineties sucked. Sucked?! Wasn’t that when scientists cracked the human genome and boy bands roamed the Earth? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-golden-age-of-the-west/533575/203 "2010-04-01T00:37:02Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Sorry 'bout that. And sorry, **RNATB**. I guess I got a little too heated. No apology necessary. I actually didn’t realize this thread wasn’t in the Pit until I saw the warning. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-golden-age-of-the-west/533575/204 "2010-04-01T00:37:11Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Sucked?! Wasn’t that when scientists cracked the human genome and boy bands roamed the Earth? Only in the late '90s. The early to mid 90s, you had grunge and alternative bands. That kicked ass. (Nirvana, anyone?) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-golden-age-of-the-west/533575/205 "2010-04-01T00:38:14Z")
Overrated. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-golden-age-of-the-west/533575/206 "2010-04-01T07:45:11Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > No, they weren’t. The name Britain didn’t come about until Roman times, and the Celtic peoples who populated the southern two thirds of island before the Romans and Anglo-Saxons are specifically called the Britons. So did they became the British after the Irish invaded the North of Britain or before that? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-golden-age-of-the-west/533575/207 "2010-04-01T12:29:23Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > So did they became the British after the Irish invaded the North of Britain or before that? The Irish also invaded Scotland. Except it was Pictland back then. And that’s when the Irish were called Scots. So Pictland became Scotland. (Some of the Hiberno-Scots then invaded Northern England–as missionaries to the heathen Sassenach.) Then some of the Scots were moved to Ireland to civilize the Irish. But many of them got sick of the place & started moving to the New World. Where they were called Irish. Until the Famine-starved bog-Irish showed up & they changed their name to Scotch Irish (AKA Hillbillies). Now Scots Irish is the preferred term. Further ethno-sociological analysis available [here](http://www.rangersfansvcelticfans.com/). (While the OP is away, we will play!) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-golden-age-of-the-west/533575/208 "2010-04-01T13:35:04Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > No, they weren’t. The name Britain didn’t come about until Roman times, and the Celtic peoples who populated the southern two thirds of island before the Romans and Anglo-Saxons are specifically called the Britons. Were they not also the people who populated it during and after the Roman occupation? So, before the Migration-Period Germanic invasions, British = Celtic. ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-golden-age-of-the-west/533575/209 "2010-04-01T16:29:34Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I’m glad \*you \*find My LAi funny. I, for one, find it horrifying. My guess is, that you did the same with my comment - missunderstand it. It sounded to me, like you being a smartass - but there is always google and I now believe you mean [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre) > [@MrDibble](#): > > You think I’m unaware of the likely \*consequences \*of doing things my way? Well, that would be your choice and you might have picked it, but sadly not everyone is a MrDibble. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Why should I? None of them were my president. I am not American. > > Although yes, I am well aware of the political agendas of your presidents. Neither am I. So, I guess your not aware what my president is up to. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-golden-age-of-the-west/533575/210 "2010-04-01T16:36:58Z")
Don’t worry. Glenn Beck is on the case! ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-golden-age-of-the-west/533575/211 "2010-04-01T17:23:49Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > His name is _Gerry_ Adams. The fact that you can misspell it while linking to his Wikipedia page is quite impressive, in a sense. > > The fact that you think linking to a bunch of Wikipedia pages constitutes any sort of contribution to a debate is… well, just odd, really. My humble appologies for the typo, yes it is very impressive and thank you for spotting it - bully to you. However, the fact that you simple just ignore the links and down play them, shows that you are just ignorant to the fact that all these links clearly state that the meaning of Ireland incorporates the whole of Ireland and not just the Republic of Ireland. Why you do not understand this is unclear to me. After all the counties in the north is still called “Northern Ireland” and not whatever RNATB wants it to be. When we drive to my friends in Belfast we are still in Ireland - fullstop. ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-golden-age-of-the-west/533575/212 "2010-04-01T19:33:23Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Don’t worry. Glenn Beck is on the case! Glenn Beck? just funny… this [guy](http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=827_1267728686)? Really? I’ll also give you [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gLjTjypWhk) I’m still laughing about it ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-golden-age-of-the-west/533575/213 "2010-04-02T01:30:30Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > What did the death of Rasputin have to do with a constitutional monarchy? The Tsar was dead set against any form of a constitution. THAT was what the revolution was all about. Again, Lenin was IN NO WAY INVOLVED IN THE REVOLUTION. He wasn’t even THERE when it took place. > > Perhaps once Nicholas died and his son took the throne – but it was unlikely Alexei would have survived – hemophilia and all. There may have been revolution but it would have been a peaceful one imposing a constitutional monarchy. > [@](#): > > And how many rebellions did Ireland have to organize to gain its independence? Ever hear of the Easter Uprising? Éamon de Valera? Michael Collins? Fenians? The Black and Tans? Battle of the Boyne?:rolleyes: That was the southern portion of Ireland not Northern Ireland. > [@](#): > > BTW, Disraeli, Gladstone, and Palmerston were all enthusiastic imperialists. Gladstone did support Irish Home Rule. > [@Fuji](#): > > Ethnocentric conjecture. I am referring to the Indian culture not ethnicity. > [@](#): > > You know nothing of contemporary Inidan society. Even today Indians in rural areas are subject to caste discrimnation. > [@](#): > > Except for that time when Winnie essentuially [said](http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1945/450513a.html) “You bog-dwellers are lucky we didn’t kick your arse again.” The actual quote: > > _“This was indeed a deadly moment in our life, and if it had not been for the loyalty and friendship of Northern Ireland we should have been forced to come to close quarters with Mr. de Valera or perish forever from the earth. **However, with a restraint and poise to which, I say, history will find few parallels, we never laid a violent hand upon them, which at times would have been quite easy and quite natural** , and left the de Valera Government to frolic with the German and later with the Japanese representatives to their heart’s content.”_ > > Fuck Churchill, that imperialist scumbag. If there’s a hell, I hope he’s burning in it. Actually Churchill was right. The Irish in WW2 were sympathetic to the Nazis in the “The Enemy of my Enemy is a Friend” sense-when Hitler killed himself Eamon de Valera sent condolences to the German legation. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > Not to mention **Curtis** ’s anglophilia leads to him misspelling the title. (Hint, **Curtis** , just because you like using British spelling, it’s STILL not proper to use it for official titles and names. So it’s NOT _ColoUr Purple_.) I’ve seen some Brits refer to “Pearl Harbour”. > [@Shakester](#): > > Between the release of the contraceptive pill and the arrival of the AIDS virus in the public consciousness. Yes because irresponsible sexual behaviour is awesome and there were no STDs before AIDS. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-golden-age-of-the-west/533575/214 "2010-04-02T01:50:38Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > There may have been revolution but it would have been a peaceful one imposing a constitutional monarchy. What in the world makes you think that? ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-golden-age-of-the-west/533575/215 "2010-04-02T01:52:20Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > That was the southern portion of Ireland not Northern Ireland. You need to read a history book, or even just go peruse wikipedia. Prior to partition in the 1920s Ireland wasn’t separated in the way you say, Northern Ireland as a political or cultural construct just didn’t exist prior to 1912. Previous to partition Unionists favoured the entire island remaining in the union. While the 1916 Rising took place in Dublin and environs (in the south), the Irish War of Independence was fought across the whole island. Previous rebellions including the 1798 Rising were largely centred on what is now Northern Ireland. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-golden-age-of-the-west/533575/216 "2010-04-02T01:56:25Z")
> [@Doughbag](#): > > However, the fact that you simple just ignore the links and down play them, shows that you are just ignorant to the fact that all these links clearly state that the meaning of Ireland incorporates the whole of Ireland and not just the Republic of Ireland. > Why you do not understand this is unclear to me. After all the counties in the north is still called “Northern Ireland” and not whatever RNATB wants it to be. When we drive to my friends in Belfast we are still in Ireland - fullstop. You are missing the point. “Britain” refers to the whole island, but most Scotsmen don’t particularly care to be called British. You seem to think I’m arguing that Northern Ireland has nothing to do with Eire. I’m not. I’m arguing that the views of the people of the Republic of Ireland have nothing to do with the political future of the North - or at least, not right now. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-golden-age-of-the-west/533575/217 "2010-04-02T02:04:06Z")
> [@Doughbag](#): > > So, you do not like let’s say Obamas or Bushes ideas and you are a Soldier - you just suddenly decide “Well, I’m not going to Afghanistan, Kuwait, Irak, Vietnam, Korea”. > > Yet you always have some nut jobs, who want to go to war over peanuts. And without a populace they can bully around, the nut jobs go nowhere. IOW, if you’re the only guy in your entire battalion who refuses to go to Viet Nam, then yeah, the rest of it will put you in the stockade. If nobody in the battalion agrees to go, what can the nut jobs do ? They can’t shoot everyone in their own country. > [@](#): > > Not every German believed at the time in the stuff that the Nazi’s told - but there was also no google and the world was much smaller (not physically of cos). > Fritz in his small village was pissed about the French taking all his stuff away, the Versaille treaty rendered Germany incapable of ever coming out of the mess – so they had a democracy and it was all going down the drain. On this however we can agree : yes, it is very different to be a pacifist now and a pacifist then, just like it is different to be anti-racist and anti-antisemite now than it is then. We are (supposed to be) more educated now, we have access to much more information, more history, and we know what modern war really looks like. So yes, I don’t “begrudge” the draftees who went and shot the Russians, or at least I don’t hold it against them. The past is a different country, they do things differently there. But if it were to happen today, I would. And I do. Especially now that soldiering is entirely voluntary. @ **Martini Enfield** : if you stop following your principles when someone puts a gun to your head, they never were principles. And if all a jack-booted thug has to do to make you do whatever it is he wishes is threaten to kill you, then you’re a spineless coward, plain and simple. So yes, again, “do or die” is a choice. That’s why there’s “or” in it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-golden-age-of-the-west/533575/218 "2010-04-02T02:16:48Z")
Have you ever _been_ in a position where it was “you or them”? Playing armchair rebel is a lot easier than actually being a rebel. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-golden-age-of-the-west/533575/219 "2010-04-02T02:56:42Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > That was the southern portion of Ireland not Northern Ireland. As has been pointed out to you, that wasn’t Northern Ireland, OR Southern Ireland – it was simply Ireland, period. And Gladstone’s Irish policies didn’t excuse his other actions. Once again, if you’re going to comment on something, take the time to educate yourself first. And I don’t care WHAT the British call “Pearl Harbour”, it’s a work of literature, and should thus be titled _The Color Purple_. And Nicholas was never going to become a constitutional monarch – he had to practically beforced at gun point in the 1905 uprising to agree to the creation of the _duma_ (Russian Parliament). ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-golden-age-of-the-west/533575/220 "2010-04-02T03:15:32Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > @ **Martini Enfield** : if you stop following your principles when someone puts a gun to your head, they never were principles. And if all a jack-booted thug has to do to make you do whatever it is he wishes is threaten to kill you, then you’re a spineless coward, plain and simple. > So yes, again, “do or die” is a choice. That’s why there’s “or” in it. To quote Slartibartfast (from _The Hitch-Hiker’s Guide To The Galaxy_): _I’d far rather be happy than right any day._ You’re not one of those people who honestly thinks they can take on the Black Helicopters with a Remington 700 bolt-action rifle, are you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-golden-age-of-the-west/533575.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-golden-age-of-the-west/533575.md?page=12)