# The Good Place \[edited title\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 21, 2016, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545 "2016-09-21T23:33:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2017, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/322 "2017-09-23T22:46:41Z")
> [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > He went into vivid detail of what would be done to him - such as being dangled by a rope tied around his genitals - and mentioned it was called The Eternal Shriek. So…yes, yes he did. Which episode was that? I’m thinking that the showrunners must have offered a major distractor right after Michael’s lines, to keep us from wondering about the idea of an employee of essentially-Heaven expecting to be tortured if he made mistakes. Because on the face of it, it doesn’t seem to make sense. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2017, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/323 "2017-09-23T23:09:07Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Which episode was that? I’m thinking that the showrunners must have offered a major distractor right after Michael’s lines, to keep us from wondering about the idea of an employee of essentially-Heaven expecting to be tortured if he made mistakes. Because on the face of it, it doesn’t seem to make sense. I think maybe you missed an episode or two. IIRC the Michael-may-be-tortured storyline lasted at least a couple of episodes, although it was the biggest deal in 1x07 “The Eternal Shriek”. It was not in any way glossed over, and was the motivation for Eleanor deciding to “kill” Janet. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2017, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/324 "2017-09-24T00:06:39Z")
Out of curiosity I wandered upthread to back around the time “The Eternal Shriek” aired (October 20, 2016). A few posters mentioned Michael’s “retirement” being torture, although only **Tapiotar** voiced suspicion that Michael might be lying about this: > [@Tapiotar](#): > > Maybe what he said about Architect retirement wasn’t true. Maybe it was a ruse to get people to admit to being not the people they are supposed to be. This is going along with the idea that this Good Place is really a kind of purgatory. In retrospect this was surprisingly close to the truth, although Michael’s motives were less pure than **Tapiotar** guessed. Or at least as far as we know right now! Anyway, given what we knew back in season one, I’m not surprised there was little questioning of the punishment supposedly in store for Michael. We’d been told a hellish and eternal “Bad Place” existed for humans who did bad things. We were also told that badness was determined based on a strict utilitarian moral system where intentions didn’t matter. Although Michael isn’t human, we had no reason to believe that Architects were held to a looser moral standard. His mistake with the Eleanors had (seemingly) harmed “real Eleanor” and to a lesser extent everyone who’d earned a spot in the neighborhood. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2017, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/325 "2017-09-24T00:23:59Z")
Fair enough, Lamia–Michael could plausibly have feared consequences for screwing up, especially in light of the premise that Real Eleanor had suffered (false though that premise turned out to be). Certainly the showrunners’ slow reveal of the rules of this particular after-life system has been one of the show’s more intriguing elements. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2017, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/326 "2017-09-24T00:52:37Z")
At the very beginning of this season’s premiere, Sean threatened Michael with the Eternal Shriek (not using those words, but describing it). So that’s clearly a real thing. Michael didn’t tell him about the reboot because his ass is on the line. At a certain point, to save himself, he’d going to need to get help from the others. ---
**Author:** ![Paintcharge](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paintcharge/32/7946_2.png) [@Paintcharge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paintcharge)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2017, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/327 "2017-09-24T16:30:42Z")
I want to know where Elanoor was keeping the note and the “magic amulet” during the party. Did she have some pockets under her dress? ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2017, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/328 "2017-09-24T17:41:27Z")
> [@Paintcharge](#): > > I want to know where Elanoor was keeping the note and the “magic amulet” during the party. Did she have some pockets under her dress? I think that if there is a Good Place, or even a Bad Place that’s plausibly passing as a Good Place, all the dresses there will have pockets. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2017, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/329 "2017-09-24T17:49:10Z")
> [@Paintcharge](#): > > I want to know where Elanoor was keeping the note and the “magic amulet” during the party. Did she have some pockets under her dress? I was vaguely under the impression she hiked up her dress and tucked the note into her stocking. Possibly, there was a miscommunication between Writing and Wardrobe so when Kristen Bell had to tuck the note into a pocket that didn’t exist, she faked it. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/330 "2017-09-28T14:11:46Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I am also wondering how they proceed from here without it getting old. As they figure it out a third time does Michael try to recruit them to be actors to fool the other tormentors and in particular Sean that they are being tortured? That plays with this being Sean’s tormenting of Michael even as the four humans are not in on it. > > Former Real Eleanor, now cat owning limping pizza lady with a trapeze incident past, may play the role of tormenting Michael with being the one always suspicious of what Michael is doing. Because, yeah, she’s too good of an actor to keep in the garage. (Why wouldn’t v.2 have needed a real Eleanor at some point anyway?) I’m guessing Real Eleanor will team up with the humans after being resentful of Michael. Maybe in secret, just prompting them in ways that will torture Michael, or maybe openly. It depends on how version 3.0 is. Version 2.0 failed partly because everything was too forced and pushed them all to the edge too quickly. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/331 "2017-09-29T01:20:45Z")
Ha! I called it! “Jason figured it out!” I loved the way they compressed the reboots. Just plain first-class storytelling. ---
**Author:** ![Reluctant\_A](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@Reluctant\_A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reluctant_A)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/332 "2017-09-29T01:21:02Z")
Spoilers for the west coast, I guess: [spoiler]Looks like **@Fugazi** got it right. I lol’d at the attempt where Jason was the one to figure it out: I felt like _I_ could feel Michael’s pain. I suspect that the truce between Michael and the humans is going to be temporary, but the big question is whether the truce will last the whole season, before Michael double-crosses them, or not? Michael’s obviously figured out that Eleanor is the linchpin, so I’m curious as to whether he’ll ever figure out what is it about Eleanor’s personality that makes her always figure it out, and adjust accordingly?[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/333 "2017-09-29T01:56:14Z")
One background detail I liked a lot…the eatery names…you can see Michael getting bored and uncreative with them as it progresses. The ‘everything’s on a stick’ iteration and ‘Chicken Soup for the Mouth’, specifically. (Sushi and the Banshees is kind of a combo breaker, though. That one was awesome, even if it came between the last two.) ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/334 "2017-09-29T02:13:18Z")
The Good Place is the best thing ever. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/335 "2017-09-29T09:46:29Z")
I liked the “Michael is being tortured” brief shoutout to both acknowledge and put to bed that theory. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/336 "2017-09-29T13:21:38Z")
What I love is that the storytelling knew the pitfalls of the format and avoided them. This started in the very beginning of season one. The way it was set up, the usual sitcom writing would be having Eleanor coming close to having her situation revealed, and hilarity would ensue as the keeps it from happening. But in the second episode, they tightened the screws on that with the “You don’t belong here” note. Then, halfway through the season, the show threw that dynamic away by having Eleanor admit she didn’t belong there.\* Then there was the twist. Now, a lazy writer would spend the entire season before Eleanor figured things out. In the opener, she did it by the end of the episode. This week, they didn’t bother showing the development, just the realization (that’s why I laughed loudly when Jason figured it out\*\*). They knew the constant repetition episode after episode would get boring real quickly, so the condensed it into what was essentially a montage of them figuring things out. I had expected Michael to go to the other for help, but not until far later. Which is the key to the show: it avoids dragging things out. If people might get bored, they blow up the situation and then move on to something different. You can never know what might happen next. \*Interesting bit of foreshadowing for what we discovered last night: Just before she reveals the mistake to everyone, she says to Chidi, “I love you, man.” \*\*Though that was foreshadowed, too. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/337 "2017-09-29T16:16:26Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > I liked the “Michael is being tortured” brief shoutout to both acknowledge and put to bed that theory. You think it puts it to bed? I think it’s still definitely possible. It seems pretty implausible that Vicki and the others would play along for hundreds of restarts without Sean ever finding out, otherwise. When Michael was drunk and said “I’m Eleanor, I’m in the bad place”, I very much expected him to suddenly listen to what he himself was saying… (Anyhow, I don’t know why I thought this was so funny, but I loved how whenever Janet fell over, she ended up lying stiff with her face not quite hitting the sane. Who knew that you could collapse to the ground in a robotic fashion?) ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/338 "2017-09-29T16:31:35Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > You think it puts it to bed? > > I think it’s still definitely possible. It seems pretty implausible that Vicki and the others would play along for hundreds of restarts without Sean ever finding out, otherwise. (Pure speculation on my part, no spoiler unless it turns out to be true) It seems pretty sloppy for the demons (should they be called demons?) to allow themselves to be overheard and even seen out of costume. I’m thinking that might be a part of the latest plan. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/339 "2017-09-29T23:06:41Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > You think it puts it to bed? > I think it’s still definitely possible. It seems pretty implausible that Vicki and the others would play along for hundreds of restarts without Sean ever finding out, otherwise. I agree. The mention of the ‘Michael is being tortured’ theory was quite possibly a fake-out. We shouldn’t assume that anything is as it’s presented to be: we shouldn’t assume that Michael is a mid-level functionary in the Bad Place hierarchy who has come up with what he thinks is a novel way of torturing Bad humans. There are too many other possibilities, as well as too many implausibilities about the situation-as-presented (as you point out with the “Vicki and others playing along” comment). (I love this show!) ---
**Author:** ![Fair\_Rarity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fair_rarity/32/153_2.png) [@Fair\_Rarity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fair_Rarity)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2017, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/340 "2017-09-30T00:18:36Z")
I was really nervous how this season was going to go, but it’s continuing to surprise and impress me. And it stays funny while playing with its premise in a believable way. Those are three things hundreds of canceled shows couldn’t do with just one of them. Hey, did anyone bring any coke? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2017, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/341 "2017-09-30T01:13:37Z")
> [@Fair\_Rarity](#): > > Hey, did anyone bring any coke? “Oh no. It’s my only copy. Don’t.” Mindy kills me :D. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545.md?page=18)