# The Good Place \[edited title\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 21, 2016, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545 "2016-09-21T23:33:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 42
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/822 "2018-11-12T20:26:59Z")
Anyone notice when Eleanor was in her determinism rant that she suggested that maybe everything was set by some uber-demons in order to torture Michael? I seem to remember something like that being discussed up-thread… ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ecks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bcef8e/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ecks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ecks)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/823 "2018-11-12T20:55:32Z")
I’m sure that it’s been mentioned on this thread before, but The Good Place Podcast is really great, and if you haven’t been listening, you should. I’ve been listening to the old episodes, and you learn so much about the process of making a show, as well as learning about the actors. Did you know that Marc Evan Jackson is an animal lover who married his Veterinarian? Also, the initial concept for the show wasn’t the afterlife, it was a world where everything ran on a point system like a video game- like that one Black Mirror episode, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/824 "2018-11-12T23:25:29Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ecks](#): > > I always liked Vicky. Sure, she jerked Michael around, but she’s not like the others- she just wants to perform. I hope than now that she’s on Earth, she gets to go to Hollywood, or at least be on a reality show. Good point. What’s stopping her from going rouge now? Sean can’t cocoon her and she could simply decide she has more fun stuff to do than chase after Michael and the gang. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/825 "2018-11-12T23:53:31Z")
Maybe we find out that this sort of thing has happened many times in the past and that a lot of the “people” on earth are actually demons? Would explain a lot… ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/826 "2018-11-13T00:48:46Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Good point. What’s stopping her from going rouge now? Sean can’t cocoon her and she could simply decide she has more fun stuff to do than chase after Michael and the gang. Because if she stays she eventually dies. And then it’s back to Sean who can be … creative. ---
**Author:** ![ebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@ebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ebb)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/827 "2018-11-13T16:54:13Z")
So speculation on who they’re going to go visit in rural Canada? Could it be Doug Forcett? He’s the guy who’s picture is on the wall of Michael’s office, the one who guessed how the afterlife worked to a high degree of accuracy. They drew attention to his picture, briefly, in the flashback sequence. When the portrait was first introduced he was described as a stoner from Calgary. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ecks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bcef8e/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ecks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ecks)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/828 "2018-11-13T17:14:16Z")
I’d say it’s almost a certainty. My only question is, will Noah Garfinkel play Doug? According to the podcast, his picture was used as a joke, and they didn’t realize that it would be clearly visible in every scene in Michael’s office. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/829 "2018-11-13T17:36:08Z")
That picture is from decades ago (the 70’s IIRC), so presumably they can get an older actor to play him. ETA: To clarify, Michael describes Doug’s correct guess about the nature of the afterlife to have occurred decades ago, so in-universe Doug will be quite a bit older. ---
**Author:** ![Mikemike2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikemike2/32/305_2.png) [@Mikemike2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikemike2)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/830 "2018-11-13T17:53:36Z")
> [@ebb](#): > > So speculation on who they’re going to go visit in rural Canada? > > Could it be Doug Forcett? He’s the guy who’s picture is on the wall of Michael’s office, the one who guessed how the afterlife worked to a high degree of accuracy. They drew attention to his picture, briefly, in the flashback sequence. When the portrait was first introduced he was described as a stoner from Calgary. Cool. Being from Calgary I paid attention to the bit about Doug and expected him to make an appearance sometime, but had forgotten about him by season 3. Also, I have met him. I watched the good place [comic com appearance](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOxSZ9CiNvA) which was very entertaining. The person who plays Tahani said she thought that the picture in the office of Doug was actually Michael Shurr, the creator of the series when he was younger. Micheal did not seem thrilled with the idea. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/831 "2018-11-13T18:22:24Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > That picture is from decades ago (the 70’s IIRC), so presumably they can get an older actor to play him. > > ETA: To clarify, Michael describes Doug’s correct guess about the nature of the afterlife to have occurred decades ago, so in-universe Doug will be quite a bit older. Hmmm. Did Michael actually say “the '70s” or did he say “decades ago”? Given the Jeremy-Bearimy-ness of afterlife time, they could plausibly make Doug any age at all. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/832 "2018-11-13T18:34:26Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > Hmmm. Did Michael actually say “the '70s” or did he say “decades ago”? Given the Jeremy-Bearimy-ness of afterlife time, they could plausibly make Doug any age at all. Here’s the quote: “Well, Doug was a stoner kid who lived in Calgary during the 1970s. One night, he got really high on mushrooms, and his best friend, Randy, said, “Hey, what do you think happens after we die?” And Doug just launched into this long monologue where he got like 92% correct.” His picture also says 1972: [https://imgur.com/3kVKnNZ](https://imgur.com/3kVKnNZ) ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/833 "2018-11-13T18:37:51Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Here’s the quote: > “Well, Doug was a stoner kid who lived in Calgary during the 1970s. > One night, he got really high on mushrooms, and his best friend, Randy, said, “Hey, what do you think happens after we die?” And Doug just launched into this long monologue where he got like 92% correct.” > > His picture also says 1972: > [https://imgur.com/3kVKnNZ](https://imgur.com/3kVKnNZ) Well, that seems pretty definitive, then… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2018, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/834 "2018-11-14T03:20:01Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Lots of fun stuff this episode, particularly Tahani’s and Jason’s pets… I was a bit disappointed that Eleanor didn’t get a sloth. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2018, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/835 "2018-11-14T03:41:49Z")
One thing that’s been bugging me about the recent storyline… our heroes are trying to help out their friends and family, to help them get into The Good Place. But we know from season 1 that you don’t just have to be decent to get there, you have to be EXTRAORDINARY. Turning Pillboi away from a life of crime isn’t enough to get him in, he would have to be a truly amazing individual… which doesn’t seem plausible any time soon. So… were we lied to back in season 1? Or is there basically zero chance that our heroes are actually going to change their friends’ fate? Or is there something more subtle going on? Or another huge deception of either them or us? Janet and Michael should certainly know the truth, right? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2018, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/836 "2018-11-14T04:15:21Z")
I don’t think we’ve ever had it verified that it’s quite as difficult to get into the Good Place as Michael described in the first episode. But even if The Gang’s efforts are ultimately futile, Michael and Janet still have every reason to help them because they’re doing good without any expectation of getting into the Good Place themselves. They’ve transcended moral dessert. That’s what Michael wants to prove to the judge: that humans are capable of change. ---
**Author:** ![DKW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dkw/32/3118_2.png) [@DKW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DKW)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2018, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/837 "2018-11-14T04:57:38Z")
To recap: I had mild concerns about the direction this show was going, in particular whether it’d take the heavy stuff like “moral dessert” (which is still firmly in the realm of crackpot lunacy to me) too seriously, or worse, arguing that the vast majority of humanity _really will_ be tortured for all eternity, which in terms of damage to a sitcom would be a nuclear bomb. The latest episode was a step in the right direction: Make it about the fantastic elements and the interactions between the characters, using the heavy philosophizing only to guide the plot. I liked how Michael was able to convince Eleanor that determinism wasn’t the be-all and end-all. Another highly encouraging sign: Shawn coming to Earth. Up until now he’s been pretty much just a boring heavy-handed dictator. Now he has to actually coordinate a team and accomplish a challenging task _without_ Infinite Cocoon Power. This is a comedy GOLD MINE. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2018, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/838 "2018-11-14T05:14:51Z")
> [@DKW](#): > > Another highly encouraging sign: Shawn coming to Earth. Up until now he’s been pretty much just a boring heavy-handed dictator. Now he has to actually coordinate a team and accomplish a challenging task _without_ Infinite Cocoon Power. This is a comedy GOLD MINE. I wish they had brought a Bad Janet with them. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2018, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/839 "2018-11-14T06:51:24Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > I don’t think we’ve ever had it verified that it’s quite as difficult to get into the Good Place as Michael described in the first episode. It’s been confirmed behind-the-scenes by the creator of the show that everything Michael says describing how the system works is true. He only lied about the things going on within his fake Good Place Neighbourhood. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2018, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/840 "2018-11-14T12:26:55Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > It’s been confirmed behind-the-scenes by the creator of the show that everything Michael says describing how the system works is true. That guy knows, at most, like 92% of how it really works. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2018, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545/841 "2018-11-14T16:20:24Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > It’s been confirmed behind-the-scenes by the creator of the show that everything Michael says describing how the system works is true. He only lied about the things going on within his fake Good Place Neighbourhood. Although I suppose it’s possible that the overall structure (“there’s a good place, there’s a bad place, it all depends on points”) was accurate, while specifics (“all the philosophers are in the bad place”) were not, and the outrageous goodness of the fake Good Place residents from season 1 was just set up to make the real humans (particularly Eleanor) feel inadequate. I agree that it’s likely that the fact that our heroes are now doing good without any expectation of reward will be relevant somehow… although it kind of seems like a cheat. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545.md?page=41) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-place-edited-title/766545.md?page=43)