# The Good, the Bad and the Ugly and the Civil War **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 7, 2018, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-the-civil-war/811967 "2018-04-07T06:54:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-the-civil-war/811967/1 "2018-04-07T06:54:27Z")
The movie takes place during the American Civil War and actively depicts the Union and Confederate armies battling each other: in the desert. I know these “Spaghetti Western” movies were shot in North African desert hence the background setting—but were any Civil War battles fought in West Texas or the American Southwest or was Sergio Leone just taking poetic license? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-the-civil-war/811967/2 "2018-04-07T07:00:28Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > but were any Civil War battles fought in West Texas or the American Southwest or was Sergio Leone just taking poetic license? Not West Texas so much, but there was at least one significant campaign in the [Southwest](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Mexico_Campaign). ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-the-civil-war/811967/3 "2018-04-07T09:25:29Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > The movie takes place during the American Civil War and actively depicts the Union and Confederate armies battling each other: in the desert. > > I know these “Spaghetti Western” movies were shot in North African desert hence the background setting—but were any Civil War battles fought in West Texas or the American Southwest or was Sergio Leone just taking poetic license? The Good The Bad and The Ugly was actually shot in Spain - [The Good, the Bad and the Ugly (1966) - Filming & production - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060196/locations) I remember being surprised when i first found out - i had never realised Spain had so many arid areas, or possibly really on the ball location scouts and a few quarries. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-the-civil-war/811967/4 "2018-04-07T15:29:31Z")
> [@Banksiaman](#): > > The Good The Bad and The Ugly was actually shot in Spain - [The Good, the Bad and the Ugly (1966) - Filming & production - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060196/locations) > > I remember being surprised when i first found out - i had never realised Spain had so many arid areas, or possibly really on the ball location scouts and a few quarries. I’ve thought it would be interesting to visit some of the locations and see what they’re really like. That graveyard at the end is so perfect for the film. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-the-civil-war/811967/5 "2018-04-07T16:22:42Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I’ve thought it would be interesting to visit some of the locations and see what they’re really like. That graveyard at the end is so perfect for the film. It was constructed just for the film. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-the-civil-war/811967/6 "2018-04-07T16:55:36Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > It was constructed just for the film. That’s better than filming in an actual cemetery. The terrain around it, and that sun-parched circle in the middle, were still perfect. ---
**Author:** ![Aquadementia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aquadementia/32/555_2.png) [@Aquadementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquadementia)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-the-civil-war/811967/7 "2018-04-07T17:27:44Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > It was constructed just for the film. The tough part was finding enough extras with names appropriate to the civil war era to fill all those graves. ---
**Author:** ![Rough\_Draft](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@Rough\_Draft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rough_Draft)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-the-civil-war/811967/8 "2018-04-07T17:32:58Z")
> [@Aquadementia](#): > > The tough part was finding enough extras with names appropriate to the civil war era to fill all those graves. That’s what I call attention to detail! ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-the-civil-war/811967/9 "2018-04-07T17:34:45Z")
As mentioned, Confederate forces invaded New Mexico from Texas in February 1862. They won a couple of battles but were eventually forced to withdraw back to Texas in April of that year. The grave shown in TGTBATU of Arch Stanton is dated February 2, 1862, so his death would have taken place before any of the major battles. The actual date TGTBATU is supposed to be set appears to be several years later than this. For one thing, Stanton’s body has been reduced to a skeleton, which wouldn’t have happened in a few months. References to Andersonville Prison Camp and the presence of Gatling Guns suggest 1864, long after the Confederates had left. So like most movies the chronology is inconsistent. But is is true that a few Civil War battles were fought in the Southwest. Trivia fact: You can tell the movie wasn’t shot in the Americas because of the absence of cactus, which is mostly only found in the New World. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-the-civil-war/811967/10 "2018-04-07T17:42:58Z")
Here’s a view of [Glorieta Pass,](https://www.civilwar.org/sites/default/files/styles/gallery_item/public/thumbnails/image/apache-canyon_0.jpg?itok=wFKtVO9X) the site of the main battle of the New Mexico campaign. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-the-civil-war/811967/11 "2018-04-07T18:04:55Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The grave shown in TGTBATU of Arch Stanton is dated February 2, 1862, so his death would have taken place before any of the major battles. I always thought there was a bit of a plot hole there. I knew the gold had to be in the unknown grave next to Arch Stanton. Blondie gave Tuco that name before they got to the cemetery; how would he have known there was an Arch Stanton buried there unless Carson had told him. That name had to be part of the secret. If I could figure it, Tuco should have. For that matter, Tuco is rushing around the cemetery just scanning the headstones for the name Arch Stanton,[sup]\*[/sup] yet later it takes him a few tries just to read “unknown”. The movie is so damn good I can overlook those two things. - The music during that scene, _The Ecstasy of Gold_, is some of the best ever written for film. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-the-civil-war/811967/12 "2018-04-07T18:22:02Z")
Although the specific battle at the bridge that Blondie and Tuco are involved in is (I think) fictional, all the generals and battles people talk about in the movie are real. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-the-civil-war/811967/13 "2018-04-07T19:31:21Z")
Wikipedia[link.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Glorieta_Pass#Apache_Canyon) “Battle of Glorieta Pass” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-the-civil-war/811967/14 "2018-04-07T20:30:05Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > For that matter, Tuco is rushing around the cemetery just scanning the headstones for the name Arch Stanton,[sup]\*[/sup] yet later it takes him a few tries just to read “unknown”. > > The movie is so damn good I can overlook those two things. Maybe he’s really, really, ridiculously good at reading the letter ‘S’, or something? So, like, that one letter, he’s got down cold; but various _other_ letters take work? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-the-civil-war/811967/15 "2018-04-07T21:23:21Z")
The scene in the movie where Clint Eastwood escapes hanging when a cannon shell strikes his hotel is set in Santa Fe. I believe that was a real-life retreat being portrayed. Having lived in Albuquerque for a spell myself, I know that city’s Old Town has a memorial to the Civil War action in the area. The Confederacy had hoped to strike out and capture California along with its gold fields but were stopped early on. That was the extent of their attempts in that direction. I see this question regarding this film and Civil War action in The Southwest a lot and am always mystified by it. Had no idea it was so little know. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-the-civil-war/811967/16 "2018-04-07T21:42:27Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I always thought there was a bit of a plot hole there. I knew the gold had to be in the unknown grave next to Arch Stanton. Blondie gave Tuco that name before they got to the cemetery; how would he have known there was an Arch Stanton buried there unless Carson had told him. That name had to be part of the secret. If I could figure it, Tuco should have. I think it was clear that Carson told Blondie the full secret: that the gold was in the grave marked unknown next to Arch Stanton’s. Blondie only told Tuco Stanton’s name. > [@](#): > > For that matter, Tuco is rushing around the cemetery just scanning the headstones for the name Arch Stanton,[sup]\*[/sup] yet later it takes him a few tries just to read “unknown”. > > The movie is so damn good I can overlook those two things. That is an inconsistently, since it was established earlier that Tuco can’t read. And he’s only heard Stanton’s name, and has never seen it written out. There are a gazillion plot holes in the movie, but I agree it’s still great. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2018, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-the-civil-war/811967/17 "2018-04-08T00:06:11Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I think it was clear that Carson told Blondie the full secret: that the gold was in the grave marked unknown next to Arch Stanton’s. Blondie only told Tuco Stanton’s name. Yes, exactly. So Tuco thinks to himself “how did Blondie know there was someone named Arch Stanton buried here? The gold’s not in his grave, but it must be close by.” Of course, even if Tuco figured it out he wasn’t in a position to do much about it. But Angel Eyes might have figured it out. For that matter, when Carson was burying the gold, why did he mark that grave “unknown”. Why not just make up a name? That works just as well, unless he happens to pick the same name as someone else who’s buried there. And next time you watch the movie, pay attention to the characters eyes during the final gunfight. Tuco and Angel Eyes are both shifty; they don’t know who to look out for. But Blondie watches Angel Eyes only. We find out why when it’s over, but when you watch again it’s almost obvious. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2018, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-the-civil-war/811967/18 "2018-04-08T00:16:16Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > That is an inconsistently, since it was established earlier that Tuco can’t read. Huh? He could certainly read a bit, although he had some trouble with the word “idiots”. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2018, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-the-civil-war/811967/19 "2018-04-08T14:32:45Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I see this question regarding this film and Civil War action in The Southwest a lot and am always mystified by it. Had no idea it was so little know. Hell, from the popular portrayals of the Civil War, you’d think that 3/4 of the war was fought in Virginia, with the other 1/4 being Antietam, Gettysburg, Atlanta and Sherman’s March, and oh yeah, Vicksburg. With only one of those being even west of the Appalachians. IOW, I’m not mystified at all. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2018, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-the-civil-war/811967/20 "2018-04-08T16:37:55Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Yes, exactly. So Tuco thinks to himself “how did Blondie know there was someone named Arch Stanton buried here? The gold’s not in his grave, but it must be close by.” Of course, even if Tuco figured it out he wasn’t in a position to do much about it. But Angel Eyes might have figured it out. Tuco’s reasoning abilities weren’t all that great. And there’s no reason to think that Blondie figured anything out. Carson told him the gold was in the grave next to Stanton’s, not in Stanton’s. > [@](#): > > For that matter, when Carson was burying the gold, why did he mark that grave “unknown”. Why not just make up a name? That works just as well, unless he happens to pick the same name as someone else who’s buried there. There’s no indication that Carson marked the grave. He just picked the grave already marked “Unknown” next to Stanton’s. > [@hogarth](#): > > Huh? He could certainly read a bit, although he had some trouble with the word “idiots”. I just checked the clip. Yes, you’re right. Tuco reads most of the note but stumbles on “idiots”. I was going by some supposed “goofs” listed in IMDB. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-the-civil-war/811967.md?page=2)