# The Good, the Bad and the Ugly and the Civil War **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 7, 2018, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-the-civil-war/811967 "2018-04-07T06:54:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2018, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-the-civil-war/811967/21 "2018-04-08T17:37:23Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Tuco’s reasoning abilities weren’t all that great. And there’s no reason to think that Blondie figured anything out. Carson told him the gold was in the grave next to Stanton’s, not in Stanton’s. Yeah, Carson told Blondie where the gold was buried, then Blondie lied to Tuco. My point is that the nature of the lie might have still revealed the location of the gold if Tuco had thought about it a bit. > [@](#): > > There’s no indication that Carson marked the grave. He just picked the grave already marked “Unknown” next to Stanton’s. Except I don’t remember seeing a body in that grave, only gold. If Carson just picked an existing “unknown” grave, what did he do with the body after he buried the gold there? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2018, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-the-civil-war/811967/22 "2018-04-08T18:03:53Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I’ve thought it would be interesting to visit some of the locations and see what they’re really like. That graveyard at the end is so perfect for the film. Some guys actually did it for the 50th anniversary of the film, recreating the final scene too: Longer short documentary: Just the recreation of the final shooting: The more formal celebration, with a better recreation, from the town's people: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/DiyiM6DnqNU/maxresdefault.jpg "Una tarde en Sad Hill (50 Aniversario 'El bueno, el feo y el malo')") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiyiM6DnqNU) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2018, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-the-civil-war/811967/23 "2018-04-08T18:37:08Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Yeah, Carson told Blondie where the gold was buried, then Blondie lied to Tuco. My point is that the nature of the lie might have still revealed the location of the gold if Tuco had thought about it a bit. The key words there are “if Tuco thought about it.” Heck, Tuco couldn’t figure out that Blondie had unloaded his gun even though he’s supposed to be a professional gunman. > [@](#): > > Except I don’t remember seeing a body in that grave, only gold. If Carson just picked an existing “unknown” grave, what did he do with the body after he buried the gold there? The crate with the gold was buried only a few inches deep. The body could have been below it. But the real reason the grave is marked “Unknown” is to provide the twist and added suspense at the end. There’s not a lot of point trying to figure out why Carson did it beyond that. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2018, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-the-civil-war/811967/24 "2018-04-08T21:40:48Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Hell, from the popular portrayals of the Civil War, you’d think that 3/4 of the war was fought in Virginia, with the other 1/4 being Antietam, Gettysburg, Atlanta and Sherman’s March, and oh yeah, Vicksburg. With only one of those being even west of the Appalachians. > > IOW, I’m not mystified at all. I guess growing up in West Texas and later living in Albuquerque, I was more exposed to the information. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-the-civil-war/811967/25 "2018-04-09T00:14:18Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > For that matter, when Carson was burying the gold, why did he mark that grave “unknown”. Why not just make up a name? That works just as well, unless he happens to pick the same name as someone else who’s buried there. > [@Colibri](#): > > There’s no indication that Carson marked the grave. He just picked the grave already marked “Unknown” next to Stanton’s. In either case, good thing he had an actual name for the adjacent grave, or things would have gotten problematic if there had subsequently been a few dozen “Unknown” burials in the vicinity. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-the-civil-war/811967/26 "2018-04-09T00:51:41Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I guess growing up in West Texas and later living in Albuquerque, I was more exposed to the information. In a similar vein I believed the most important battle to be in Fayetteville, Arkansas, where the 1st Arkansas Cavalry, CSA fought the 1st Arkansas Cavalry, USA. There is a reference in the link I posted above that the CSA wanted to capture California gold fields to finance The Cause. Good luck with that, guys. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-the-civil-war/811967/27 "2018-04-12T18:20:15Z")
Every time I see this movie on TV I try to give it a watch. It seems the audio and video are always a tiny bit out of synch. Every single time. What’s up with that? ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-the-civil-war/811967/28 "2018-04-12T18:26:45Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > Every time I see this movie on TV I try to give it a watch. It seems the audio and video are always a tiny bit out of synch. Every single time. What’s up with that? Everyone besides the 3 main characters had their voiced dubbed in, and all the shooting sound effects were done in post as well. ---
**Author:** ![Grestarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grestarian/32/3227_2.png) [@Grestarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grestarian)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-the-civil-war/811967/29 "2018-04-13T23:29:28Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Yeah, Carson told Blondie where the gold was buried, then Blondie lied to Tuco. Blondie didn’t actually lie… > [@Colibri](#): > > I think it was clear that Carson told Blondie the full secret: that the gold was in the grave marked unknown next to Arch Stanton’s. Blondie only told Tuco Stanton’s name. And that’s only because Tuco kept harping on it – “The name! Gimme the NAME!” “Sad Hill! Now tell me the name!” – no doubt because Leone wanted the audience to focus on the name, as well. So Blondie gave Tuco the name. > [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > And next time you watch the movie, pay attention to the characters eyes during the final gunfight. Tuco and Angel Eyes are both shifty; they don’t know who to look out for. But Blondie watches Angel Eyes only. We find out why when it’s over, but when you watch again it’s almost obvious. I thought the more glaringly obvious part was when Blondie spent barely any energy ‘writing’ the real name of the grave on the rock. I mean, I know that gets glossed over when actors are typing on a computer or writing in a journal, but the cameras didn’t even seem to try to cut away to gloss over the fact that Blondie wasn’t actually writing anything. To me, that said “Unmarked Grave” so when “Unknown” soldier was the answer it was an “Oh, of course!” moment. > [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Except I don’t remember seeing a body in that grave, only gold. If Carson just picked an existing “unknown” grave, what did he do with the body after he buried the gold there? That was Stanton. Carson & crew dumped him on top off Arch and added the name – most people are assuming it was a surname. :eek:😃 Then he renamed the original grave “Unknown” because “Goldy Real” would have invited too much trouble. 😃 –G! With the darkness and the anguish of a Goya or Van Cleef He rescued truth from beauty and meaning from belief …–Jackson Browne _…Sergio Leone_ …The Naked Ride Home ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2018, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-the-civil-war/811967/30 "2018-04-14T02:05:36Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Everyone besides the 3 main characters had their voiced dubbed in, and all the shooting sound effects were done in post as well. Going from memory, I thought even Tuco was dubbed. Maybe it’s only in certain places, or I’ve just conflated things. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2018, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-the-civil-war/811967/31 "2018-04-14T05:33:25Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > In a similar vein I believed the most important battle to be in Fayetteville, Arkansas, where the 1st Arkansas Cavalry, CSA fought the 1st Arkansas Cavalry, USA. > > There is a reference in the link I posted above that the CSA wanted to capture California gold fields to finance The Cause. Good luck with that, guys. While on my father’s side, a direct ancestor was a Yankee who fought at Gettysburg with a New York regiment, my mother’s family was from Arkansas. A direct ancestor and some siblings and/or cousins all joined the Confederate army, only to desert one by one throughout 1863. > [@glowacks](#): > > Going from memory, I thought even Tuco was dubbed. Maybe it’s only in certain places, or I’ve just conflated things. I think Eli Wallach could handle English just fine. ---
**Author:** ![Lorne\_Armstrong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@Lorne\_Armstrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lorne_Armstrong)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2018, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-the-civil-war/811967/32 "2018-04-15T04:19:39Z")
> [@glowacks](#): > > Going from memory, I thought even Tuco was dubbed. Maybe it’s only in certain places, or I’ve just conflated things. All of the voices were dubbed. However the three leads spoke English while being filmed while the other actors spoke Italian or Spanish and had their voices dubbed in English by other actors. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-the-civil-war/811967/33 "2018-04-16T04:03:01Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > The Confederacy had hoped to strike out and capture California along with its gold fields but were stopped early on. That was the extent of their attempts in that direction. The Texans made it as far as [Picacho Pass](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Picacho_Pass), not far from Tucson. > [@Wiki](#): > > Twelve Union cavalry troopers and one scout (reported to be mountain man Pauline Weaver but in reality Tucson resident John W. Jones), commanded by Lieutenant James Barrett of the 1st California Cavalry, were conducting a sweep of the Picacho Peak area, looking for Confederates reported to be nearby. The Arizona Confederates were commanded by Sergeant Henry Holmes. Barrett was under orders not to engage them, but to wait for the main column to come up. However, “Lt. Barrett acting alone rather than in concert, surprised the Rebels and should have captured them without firing a shot, if the thing had been conducted properly.” The Lieutenant along with two of his troopers were killed in a 90-minute skirmish plus three more wounded, a 46% casualty rate. Three of the Confederate Arizona Rangers were captured, and (maybe) two wounded. Not exactly Shiloh. The Confederates had gone some twenty miles further west to [Stanwix Station](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stanwix_Station), were turned back there, but knowing the California Column was moving eastward, set up the pickets that Barrett found. After that they retreated back to Texas. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-the-civil-war/811967.md?page=1)