# The GOP and Race **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 29, 2013, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522 "2013-08-29T19:06:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/301 "2013-09-09T05:06:00Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > In this case, it doesn’t matter what ACTUALLY happened. What matters is what Republicans think happened, which explains their behavior. > > If you want to accuse them of being overly sensitive or detached from reality, fine. But their motivations were not racist, nor even that they didn’t care. They just know what happens to Republicans in a context where Democrats control the message. > > Furthermore, even if you think I’m full of crap on this, I clearly did not lie, which is why we have rules against that sort of thing. If he was making a Joe Wilson reference, then I apologize for misunderstanding. It does matter what happens. Truth always matters. You made an absolute statement about Obama in a press conference. Cough up a cite. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/302 "2013-09-09T05:13:59Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > It does matter what happens. Truth always matters. > You made an absolute statement about Obama in a press conference. Cough up a cite. Truth matters, but that’s not the issue at hand when we’re talking about what people believe. THe truth is that Republicans aren’t racist, but more important is that a lot of voters believe they are. Since Republicans feel that Democrats set them up at these types of public events, they are wary. Just as Democrats are wary about Fox News and refused to let Fox News moderate the debates. Ah, here’s a good cite. even comes with Obama’s excuse: > **[President Obama to Bob Woodward: 'Mistake' to Dress Down Paul Ryan to His...](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obama-bob-woodward-mistake-dress-paul-ryan-face/story?id=17171273)** > > President Obama told author Bob Woodward that he didn't know Rep. Paul Ryan was going to attend at a major speech he delivered last year on spending and debt, and says in retrospect that it was "a mistake" to dress down Ryan and his budget plans to... ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/303 "2013-09-09T05:22:38Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Truth matters, but that’s not the issue at hand when we’re talking about what people believe. THe truth is that Republicans aren’t racist, but more important is that a lot of voters believe they are. Since Republicans feel that Democrats set them up at these types of public events, they are wary. Just as Democrats are wary about Fox News and refused to let Fox News moderate the debates. > > Ah, here’s a good cite. even comes with Obama’s excuse: > > [President Obama to Bob Woodward: 'Mistake' to Dress Down Paul Ryan to His Face in Budget Speech - ABC News](http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obama-bob-woodward-mistake-dress-paul-ryan-face/story?id=17171273) From Obama’s speech. > [@](#): > > The president lit into the Ryan budget plan, saying it was “less about reducing the deficit than it is about changing the basic social compact in America.” Something wrong with telling the truth? Ryan’s plans for SS, Medicare and other programs is the work of an asshole. He wants to eliminate the very benefits he once received. > [@](#): > > When he was 16, Ryan found his 55-year-old father lying dead in bed of a heart attack. Following the death of his father, Ryan’s grandmother moved in with the family, and because she had Alzheimer’s, Ryan helped care for her while his mother commuted to college in Madison, Wisconsin. After his father’s death Ryan received Social Security survivors benefits until his 18th birthday, which were saved up in order to pay for his college education. [From Wiki.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Ryan#Early_life_and_education) So once again the old Republican “Fuck you, I got mine.” ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/304 "2013-09-09T05:31:02Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Truth matters, but that’s not the issue at hand when we’re talking about what people believe. THe truth is that Republicans aren’t racist, but more important is that a lot of voters believe they are. **Since Republicans feel that Democrats set them up at these types of public events** , they are wary. Just as Democrats are wary about Fox News and refused to let Fox News moderate the debates. > > Ah, here’s a good cite. even comes with Obama’s excuse: > > [President Obama to Bob Woodward: 'Mistake' to Dress Down Paul Ryan to His Face in Budget Speech - ABC News](http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obama-bob-woodward-mistake-dress-paul-ryan-face/story?id=17171273) (bolding mine) Here’s the very first sentence from your cite: > [@](#): > > President Obama told author Bob Woodward that he didn’t know Rep. Paul Ryan was going to attend at a major speech he delivered last year on spending and debt, Is that your idea of setting someone up at a solemn occasion, a budget speech that mentions a budget proposal from someone they didn’t even know would be in attendance? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/305 "2013-09-09T06:17:12Z")
I said EVEN on solemn occasions. The budget speech wasn’t an example of a solemn occasion, but it was an example of Republicans feeling like they were set up. It’s low class to attack people when they are unable to respond and have to just sit there like they are being taken to the woodshed. Heck, our President even does it to the Supreme Court. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/306 "2013-09-09T06:29:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > In this case, it doesn’t matter what ACTUALLY happened. What matters is what Republicans think happened, which explains their behavior. > [@adaher](#): > > Truth matters, but that’s not the issue at hand when we’re talking about what people believe. THe truth is that Republicans aren’t racist, but more important is that a lot of voters believe they are. Since Republicans feel that Democrats set them up at these types of public events, they are wary. Just as Democrats are wary about Fox News and refused to let Fox News moderate the debates. If Republicans are wary of Democrats because they’ll believe they’ll be set up (whether it ACTUALLY happens or not), are minorities justified in not voting for Republicans based on just a belief that they are racist? > [@adaher](#): > > I said EVEN on solemn occasions. Then, by all means, give us an example of that having happened. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/307 "2013-09-09T06:36:32Z")
I cited the Wellstone memorial. We can go round and round about what actually happened, but Republicans felt like they’d gotten burned. And it’s not as if it was just them, Jesse Ventura was disgusted as well. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/308 "2013-09-09T06:57:53Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I cited the Wellstone memorial. We can go round and round about what actually happened, but Republicans felt like they’d gotten burned. And it’s not as if it was just them, Jesse Ventura was disgusted as well. Three posters cited the account of Al Franken, who was actually at Wellstone’s memorial. (And the cite was from a book, even; we know you find those to be credible.) You replied that it doesn’t matter what actually happened. Is that your idea of going round and round? On second though, never mind. First you cited that it happened, then that it didn’t matter if it happened, now you’re repeating that you cited it. You are going round and round. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/309 "2013-09-09T07:02:12Z")
Because Al Franken, a Democrat, is so much more credible than an independent who was there and walked out. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/310 "2013-09-09T07:25:18Z")
Help us out here. Are you now saying that it did happen and that does matter? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/311 "2013-09-09T07:46:59Z")
I’m saying that it’s pointless to go back and forth about it, because for the purposes of this thread it’s only important to understand that Republicans THINK that’s how it was. And it’s not crazy to think so, because a) even reasonable Republicans thought it went overboard, b) Jesse Ventura was sure it went overboard, and c) Democrats apologized. Now whether objective reality determines whether it actually happened or not is an academic exercise, and one that has no real answer. Democrats admit Lott got booed, just not by a lot of people. I would counter that when you set a memorial up as a political rally, it’s going to fire up some passions even if you didn’t intend to do so. It was inappropriate, and there’s good reason to believe it would happen again. Which is why Republicans made suggestions for the MLK commemoration, which were rejected, and which in turn made no Republican want to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/312 "2013-09-09T08:18:43Z")
You say it’s pointless to go on about it, and then you go on about it. You seem to want to slip a few more points in under the wire, or to have your cake and eat it, too. I’ll respond only to this: > [@adaher](#): > > I’m saying that it’s pointless to go back and forth about it, because for the purposes of this thread it’s only important to understand that Republicans THINK that’s how it was. And it’s not crazy to think so,… Then I’ll say that for purposes of this thread it’s only important to understand that minorities THINK Republicans are racist. And it’s not crazy to think so. If you disagree with this, go back and read that thing about cake again. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/313 "2013-09-09T08:49:24Z")
This [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=701780) illustrates the problem the Republican party has with black voters in 2013. “The Democrats are the party of slavery.” This is a slogan designed to appeal to stupid people. Which shows how the slogan makers of the Republican party see black voters. The Republicans need to stop imaging black voters are stupid and are only voting for the Democrats because they fell for some trick. And all the Republicans need to do is come up with a better trick. Black voters, like most other voters, are voting for the party they see as better attuned to their interests. They’re looking at the issues and making an intelligent and informed choice of who to vote for. If the Republican party wants to ever win back black voters it needs to start respecting them and offering them real reasons why it’s in their interest to vote Republican. The Republicans aren’t going to fool black voters with tricks and slogans. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/314 "2013-09-09T09:12:58Z")
They aren’t trying. Mainly they are treating them with benign neglect. Like whites, they are in demographic decline. Republicans haven’t needed them to win in the past and will need them even less in the future. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/315 "2013-09-09T13:51:44Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Paul Wellstone memorial. Turned into a political pep rally and Trent Lott got booed. If Republicans had had reason to suspect that’s what would happen, they would have had every reason to shun the memorial. :mad: Oh, don’t you **dare** go **there!** :mad: :mad: :mad: If you want the Straight Dope on Wellstone’s funeral, go to [_Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right,_](http://www.amazon.com/Lies-Lying-Liars-Tell-Them/dp/0525947647) by Al Franken (Penguin Group 2003), Chapter 25: “‘This Was _Not_ a Memorial to Paul Wellstone’: A Case Study in Right-Wing Lies”: > [@](#): > > The crowd at the event, which had been billed as a celebration of the lives of the deceased, had a raucous energy. From where I was sitting, it all seemed just incredibly natural and human, the way grieving people often jump between crying and laughing. A group of Indians did some tribal drumming. A Soul band called “Sounds of Blackness” as dignitaries filed in. When the crowd saw Clinton on the Jumbotron, they went nuts. Same for Hilary, for Gore, and for Mondale, who was replacing Wellstone on the ballot. When Trent Lott’s face appeared on the screen, a few people booed. It seemed like good-natured ribbing. Lott broke out in a grin and waved. > > \ > > One of the eight eulogies that night, given by Wellstone’s best friend Rick Kahn, ended with a political call to arms that went over the top. . . . > > The trouble began when Kahn put too fine a point on what the crowd had to do to keep Paul’s legacy alive. “'We can redeem the promise of his life if you help us win this election for Paul Wellstone!” Huge cheers. He repeated variations of this several times, and the crowd stayed right with him. I could see how someone watching on TV might find this blatantly political battle cry just a bit too partisan for a memorial service. > > \ > > By one estimate, at least 630,000 people in Minnesota watched at least part of the memorial on TV. Reasonable people of goodwill were genuinely offended. And to people who only saw the ten-second clips that were later repeated and repeated on TV, it looked like Kahn and the crowd were being foot-stompingly partisan – that Wellstone’s death was being used for political gain. > > But Kahn’s speech was also full of phrases like “[our] hearts are now shattered” and “tonight we are filled to overflowing with grief and sorrow.” This speech was coming from someone who was crushed by the deaths of his best friend, his best friend’s wife, his best friend’s daughter, and three other very close friends. Yeah, it had some inappropriate moments. But I assumed people would understand, and cut the man a little slack. The next day the Republican Noise Machine cranked into action. Vin Weber called the event a “complete, total, absolute sham,” and that dishonest and despicable meme was fertilized and sown throughout the media. Kellyanne Fitzpatrick Conway claimed that the audience was instructed by a screen when to cheer and when to jeer, like a game show audience. (Not true – but there was a monitor for closed captioning for the hearing impaired. Would you expect less at a leading liberal’s funeral?) Rush Limbaugh claimed the mourners of one of the most beloved politicians in Minnesota history were a “planted audience” and “bused in the by AFL-CIO.” Neither statement had a shred of truth in it. 20,000 mourners attended – much more than the organizers expected; the stadium was only built to hold 16,000. The booing of Trent Lott was embellished into an orchestrated mass demonstration of anti-Pub hate. Christopher Caldwell wrote in _The Weekly Standard_ that viewers “turned on television to watch a solemn commemoration and found a rally devoted to a politics that was twisted, pagan, childish, inhumane, and even totalitarian beyond their word nightmares.” The liars just kept repeating their damned shameless arrogant lies until they became the common wisdom. Og damn them all! May their hemorrhoids resist surgery! May their tongues swell and their genitals wither! May the fleas of a thousand camels infest their pubes! :mad: :mad: :mad: ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/316 "2013-09-09T14:22:33Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > They aren’t trying. Mainly they are treating them with benign neglect. Like whites, they are in demographic decline. Republicans haven’t needed them to win in the past and will need them even less in the future. Sounds like a winning attitude. Combine that with the ramblings of the likes of Steve King, and you’ve got yourself a party of the future. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/317 "2013-09-09T14:32:09Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :mad: Oh, don’t you **dare** go **there!** > > :mad: :mad: :mad: > > If you want the Straight Dope on Wellstone’s funeral, go to [_Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right,_](http://www.amazon.com/Lies-Lying-Liars-Tell-Them/dp/0525947647) by Al Franken (Penguin Group 2003), Chapter 25: “‘This Was _Not_ a Memorial to Paul Wellstone’: A Case Study in Right-Wing Lies”: You know, not only that, but who would come out looking worse if some prominent Republican had been booed at the MLK anniversary? Suppose the Wellstone memorial had happened just as **adaher** alleges; Trent Lott suffered a few seconds of boos and got a talking point being cited more than 10 years later to try to impeach Democrats and their motives. That folks like Limbaugh repeated the story (whether it’s true or not) means they thought there was something to be gained by making the Democrats look like meanies. It makes no sense to say that Republicans avoided the MLK anniversary because it would have made Democrats look bad. They would only stay away if their attendance would make Democrats look good, or if they just didn’t think it was important to be there. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/318 "2013-09-09T16:14:42Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > In this case, it doesn’t matter what ACTUALLY happened. What matters is what Republicans think happened, which explains their behavior. > [@adaher](#): > > Truth matters, but that’s not the issue at hand when we’re talking about what people believe. THe truth is that Republicans aren’t racist, but more important is that a lot of voters believe they are. There are only two possible ways to interpret these statements. 1. Blacks \*\*should \*\*think that Republicans are racist, since Republicans value perceptions over the truth. 2. Republicans **really are** racist, because what people believe about them \*\*is \*\*the truth. You might want to stop arguing. You’re like a quarterback who loses yardage on every play. You’re not merely in your own end zone; you’re a good way toward circumnavigating the globe. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/319 "2013-09-09T17:05:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **adaher** : > > Santorum isn’t exactly the brightest bulb himself. Ooh, clever! Refute an argument that Republicans are the Party of Stupid by pointing out a particular prominent Republican who is stupid. And if the invitations to the MLK memorial were a trap, it’s only because the Republicans made it so. Why are the Democrats now able to point to the Republicans and say “See, they’re racist”? Because the Republicans decided not to attend. Why were the ideas presented in the speeches mostly liberal ones? Because there were no Republicans there to give speeches. If they had really suspected a trap, then they would have made absolutely certain to be there, to foil the trap. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/320 "2013-09-09T18:43:29Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Santorum isn’t exactly the brightest bulb himself. The GOP usually wins the college graduate vote, it’s the postgraduate vote they usually lose. Santorum reflects the GOP itself, he was almost your nominee. If he isn’t smart, it is because stupid people vote for him and keep him around. Guys like him represent a very vocal percentage of the GOP who hates intellectuals yet have graduated college, or hate science but purport to be scientific. What people say about Santorum is reflected on the Republican voters themselves, except for the frothy anal sex stuff [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522.md?page=17)