# The GOP and Race **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 29, 2013, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522 "2013-08-29T19:06:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2013, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/121 "2013-08-31T18:03:11Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > One thing we know for sure, a third of Latinos, and recently nearly half of Latinos, didn’t see the Republicans as racist. Otherwise they wouldn’t have vote for GWB. I don’t know that for sure and I seriously doubt that your statement(s) above have much, if any, relation to reality. Is this what you think of as “logical”? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2013, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/122 "2013-08-31T18:07:42Z")
I see the rehabilitation of GWB is proceeding on schedule. I notice that past Republicans are always better than current Republicans. Here’s a new flash on immigration: the GOP leadership supports the bill. It’s the rank and file who don’t, and oh, the American public. But this is a republic, why should the people’s desires be represented in Congress? What a quaint idea. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2013, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/123 "2013-08-31T18:16:26Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I see the rehabilitation of GWB is proceeding on schedule. I notice that past Republicans are always better than current Republicans. You even have problems with the concept of “low bar to raise over” do you? > [@adaher](#): > > Here’s a new flash on immigration: the GOP leadership supports the bill. It’s the rank and file who don’t, and oh, the American public. But this is a republic, why should the people’s desires be represented in Congress? What a quaint idea. And I posted polls that showed that you are wrong on this one too, it seems that for some posters evidence is a quaint idea. And once again this item was mentioned before by me and many other minorities as a prime example of the prejudice present on many republican house critters. You really are in trouble thinking that this helps your position. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/124 "2013-08-31T18:53:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Here’s a new flash on immigration: the GOP leadership supports the bill. Really? So when did they pass it? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/125 "2013-08-31T20:15:34Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > But this is a republic, why should the people’s desires be represented in Congress? What a quaint idea. Whether representatives should vote for what they deem to be best or vote to best fit their constituents’ wishes has been a constant battle since literally before the U.S. was the U.S. There is no one answer or best answer. To think otherwise is to ignore every minute of the country’s actual history. Thanks for playing “Separated From Reality.” ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2013, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/126 "2013-08-31T20:46:51Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > There’s a lot of truth to that, but it’s also true that you can achieve a diverse party without winning a lot of black voters. Thus the GOP’s desire to win more Hispanics and Asians and Jews, groups which are actually gettable. The GOP was a minor party until Lincoln and Grant. If your brand made its name freeing the blacks, and now your gang are the enemies of the blacks, why should any other minority latch onto you? > [@](#): > > If you end up with a Democratic Party where only blacks give it majority support, no matter how dominant that support is, it makes the Democrats the less diverse party. Your conclusion is not quite proven from your premise. The Democrats could be more diverse inasmuch as they are more committed to diversity and less anti-black, even if somehow (however improbably) every other ethnic group favored the GOP slightly. Do you need me to draw you a graph? Yes, in the absence of strong anti-black sentiment in the GOP, your conclusion would probably follow; but if the Democrats got all the black votes because the GOP tried to unify all other ethnicities against the “untrustworthy negroes,” _which is actually happening right now,_ that would make the GOP less diverse. Which it is. And besides, the GOP lose Mexican (Chicano and more recent immigrant) votes because they’re even more anti-Mexican than anti-black. They lose Muslim votes because they’re even more anti-Muslim than anti-Mexican. They lose Jews and Christians who believe in the ethical traditions of those religions. Most American ethnicities have no reason to trust the GOP, and in fact quite reasonably do not trust it. The GOP survives by playing to a particularly large ethnic base of white Anglos, and by radicalizing into fanaticism and then subverting various interest groups (notably gun rights advocates, tax-cut addicts, and anti-abortion humanists; but also anti-sex-ed types, public education skeptics, anti-fascist paranoids, would-be fascists, whatever; I’ve known a few people who claim to vote for conservatives _because they eat meat._) ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2013, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/127 "2013-08-31T21:39:27Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I hear your side has camps for that. Knock it off. Direct insults are forbidden in Great Debates. = = = EVERYONE, dial back the personal rhetoric. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2013, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/128 "2013-08-31T22:43:17Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > But this is a republic, why should the people’s desires be represented in Congress? What a quaint idea. Indeed. So gay marriage should pass with Republican support any day now, right? ---
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/129 "2013-09-02T01:35:25Z")
[quote=“adaher, post:105, topic:667522”] I don’t think it’s bad intentions on the part of Democrats. I think both parties are just following their instincts on race. Republicans believe that we should be color blind and that it doesn’t matter if a white guy represents black voters or a black guy represents white voters. Democrats believe it’s an insult and non-representative to have a person of one race represent a district where voters are of another race. ‘Audacity’ has taken on a whole other dimension these last few years. [quote=“GIGObuster, post:106, topic:667522”] Not really, cherry picking is more likely to get you what you want to mislead others. There is a very good reason \*\*adaher \*\*only choose the state wide offices. Adaher is spot-on here. > [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Culture, huh? :dubious: > > Guys, this is why people think Republicans are racists. _Because they are._ Folks, this is the kind of ‘color coded’ paranoia that’s being substituted for rationale nowadays. - racism behind every word. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/130 "2013-09-02T01:46:21Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > Adaher is spot-on here. If you only want to talk about proportions, I think it is more truthful to talk about total numbers and the real \*\*influence \*\*a party offers to minorities. > [@Conservian](#): > > Folks, this is the kind of ‘color coded’ paranoia that’s being substituted for rationale nowadays. - racism behind every word. Nope, when you completely miss the Nazi accusation from adaher I can not think that you are being serious. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/131 "2013-09-02T01:48:17Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > Folks, this is the kind of ‘color coded’ paranoia that’s being substituted for rationale nowadays. - racism behind every word. At the same time, the rest of the country thinks exactly this about the Republicans. And both sides vote accordingly. So. A Dilemma. However can this be resolved? Other than looking at the reality of black/white relations and opinions about the way the world works, of course. Like [Black-White Polls on Race](http://familyinequality.wordpress.com/2013/08/26/race-polls/). But we’re not allowed by the right to look at reality, because it doesn’t work the way they want it to. So I guess we’ll have to figure out something else. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/132 "2013-09-02T04:00:07Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > [Black-White Polls on Race](http://familyinequality.wordpress.com/2013/08/26/race-polls/). Honestly, I find it surprising and a bit encouraging that nearly half (within margin of error) of black respondents don’t think public schools treat black kids unfairly. Progress! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/133 "2013-09-02T04:59:51Z")
We still have racial problems in this country. But I’m shocked to see there are so many people unaware of how much progress has been in the last fifty years. All I can assume was that poll asked a lot of young people who have no memory of how bad racism used to be. ---
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/134 "2013-09-02T07:20:10Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > At the same time, the rest of the country thinks exactly this about the Republicans. And both sides vote accordingly. > > So. A Dilemma. However can this be resolved? Other than looking at the reality of black/white relations and opinions about the way the world works, of course. Like [Black-White Polls on Race](http://familyinequality.wordpress.com/2013/08/26/race-polls/). But we’re not allowed by the right to look at reality, because it doesn’t work the way they want it to. So I guess we’ll have to figure out something else. Nothing new there. Polls - have now become the conscience of too many Americans. Listen up! Critical thinking is not against the law, yet! IMHO, the ONLY way America will be able to bond together again as a nation is if some cataclysm occurs, forcing ALL Americans to set aside their divisive politics and unite for the sake of self preservation. ---
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/135 "2013-09-02T07:54:43Z")
[quote=“Exapno\_Mapcase, post:131, topic:667522”] At the same time, the rest of the country thinks exactly this about the Republicans. And both sides vote accordingly. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > We still have racial problems in this country. But I’m shocked to see there are so many people unaware of how much progress has been in the last fifty years. All I can assume was that poll asked a lot of young people who have no memory of how bad racism used to be. Polls - those toxic cocktails that Americans have been drinking far too much of for the last decade. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > If you only want to talk about proportions, I think it is more truthful to talk about total numbers and the real \*\*influence \*\*a party offers to minorities. > > Nope, when you completely miss the Nazi accusation from adaher I can not think that you are being serious. The manipulation and skewing of stats have become an art form with all politicians. But Democrats have no equal in that regard. If you’re going to start throwing out an “accusation” about another poster, reference the quote in question. I’ve been here a short while and have read some of what adaher has posted. He certainly does not appear a ‘bomb thrower’ and IMO, much of what he says politically has merit. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/136 "2013-09-02T08:35:56Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > The manipulation and skewing of stats have become an art form with all politicians. But Democrats have no equal in that regard. > > If you’re going to start throwing out an “accusation” about another poster, reference the quote in question. > I’ve been here a short while and have read some of what adaher has posted. He certainly does not appear a ‘bomb thrower’ and IMO, much of what he says politically has merit. :rolleyes: You only need to look up for the post from adaher, what I noted and what the moderator pointed out. Just check posts # 114, 119 and 127 The fact that you did miss that makes all doubt that you actually can follow evidence, not likely that what you say here about stats is based on evidence either. The point stands on the numbers I linked to from CNN and congress, the only thing you can do is innuendo and no evidence to show that they are not valid. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/137 "2013-09-02T11:50:55Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > Polls - those toxic cocktails that Americans have been drinking far too much of for the last decade. > … > The manipulation and skewing of stats have become an art form with all politicians. But Democrats have no equal in that regard. Really? What did the “unskewing” of the 2012 polls show you? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/138 "2013-09-02T14:47:00Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > Polls - those toxic cocktails that Americans have been drinking far too much of for the last decade. Polls are not wrong. You simply don’t like the numbers they report. > [@](#): > > I’ve been here a short while and have read some of what adaher has posted. He certainly does not appear a ‘bomb thrower’ and IMO, much of what he says politically has merit. You should have been here through 2011 and 2012, when adaher misunderstood or deliberately misconstrued every single poll and result posted about for the entire election run-up, no matter how many times I and others patiently explained to him exactly why he was wrong. We judge people here by their track records, because that’s the only means we have available. It’s not surprising that when he leaves in embarrassment after the election and then returns to make exactly the same comments that were proven over and over again to be wrong that we’ll remember his track record and treat him accordingly. You’ll find that out too if you stay around. Dismissing polls is not a good way to start. Polls are informative and influential, although flawed and imperfect in many ways. You get understanding out of them only if you understand polling properly and completely in the first place. adaher wrote that the 2012 results “spooked” the Republicans. That could only happen through wishful ignorance and denial of the polls. If you want to go down that road yourself, you’ll find it uncomfortably bumpy. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/139 "2013-09-02T15:33:42Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > But we’re not allowed by the right to look at reality, because it doesn’t work the way they want it to. So I guess we’ll have to figure out something else. I don’t know why anyone is surprised, Xap. This is, after all, the side that decided that [banning all federal studies about gun violence](http://www.livescience.com/26253-government-stifled-gun-research.html) was the proper response when a study went against them. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522/140 "2013-09-02T17:41:48Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You assume that two out of three see the other party as racist, rather than merely wrong or not in their interests to vote for. > > One thing we know for sure, a third of Latinos, and recently nearly half of Latinos, didn’t see the Republicans as racist. Otherwise they wouldn’t have vote for GWB. The assumption that the races break down into two precise groups - whites and non-whites - is, itself, fairly racist. Latinos are not blacks are not Jews. Making gains with one of these groups (which, nb, you are not) is not evidence that you’re not racist against another of the groups. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-and-race/667522.md?page=8)