No siree, no, they are not stopping immigration reform in the house, nothing to see here.
And I think that post is baloney, even my well to do relatives are in favor of the dream act, and it is clear that the Republicans in the house are not moving much even on that front.
And that reminded me adaher, how are the racists and birthers that are pushing that ICE lawsuit to remove the dreamers going?
But… but… the extreme conservative sources told us that it was going to destroy Obama! Oh well, instead Media Matters and other sources I referred to were spot on on the expected result.
The only reason the “racist” thing sticks a little is because minorities don’t vote for the GOP. If blacks are the only holdout, that line of attack won’t be very convincing.
The law is the law and the President is breaking the law. If it’s wrong to deport people brought here as children, then that should be the permanent law of the land, not something we arbitrarily bequeath to current immigrants.
That’s another difference between the parties. The Republicans want clear laws and they want those laws enforced. The Democrats want laws, but then want fallible men to use their discretion to decide when and if they will be enforced depending on which way the political winds blow.
No, just to jog your faulty memory, you **did **rely on sources that glowed on the efforts of “birther” Kovatch and a racist organization in a previous thread were I found where those guys were coming from. There are indeed more reasons why that racist thing sticks, **whereas you want to deal with it or not. **
The sorry effort at avoiding dealing with the fact that there were racist elements behind that effort can be seen in this page of the Rubio thread on immigration:
‘Tap dancing around the racists behind the lawsuit’ issue noted adaher, in any case the Judge already told the bums to take a hike, the president is not breaking the law.
Which isn’t really answering my argument that if the GOP wins majorities among all groups but blacks, they can’t be very racist. Unless they are a specifically anti-black, but pro-Latino, pro-Asian, pro-Arab, pro-Jew party, which would be a pretty unique idea.
Nope, the one that is not dealing with the argument on why the racist item sticks is you, so the point stands.
(BTW in the past I pointed at the polls that showed that most Asian descendants did vote democratic, besides the Hispanics, so even here you are wrong…
The racism charge doesn’t really stick well. I was just arguing that to the extent it does stick, it could be eliminated as a problem if the GOP became a lot more competitive among minority voters.
I doubt 60% of whites are racist and supporting a racist party. And I certainly doubt that one out of every three Hispanics is self-hating by voting Republican.
And again, I only see a refusal to explain properly why on that thread and here now the issue that those ICE lawsuit pushers were birthers and racists is not important at all to you, are you not even **curious **a little bit?
They may be gettable, but they sure aren’t gotten and there are some pretty significant obstacles in the way. Republicans aren’t doing any better with Jews than they are with Hispanics, by the way. They may be doing worse.
The problem with Republicans and black voters is largely self-perpetuating: as Republicans started doing worse with black voters because of their policies and rhetoric, they eventually stopped trying to appeal to them at all. Then they couldn’t figure out why black people weren’t voting for them and decided to blame them voters and (later) try to put up obstacles to depress turnout. There has been no effort in years to try to win votes. Democrats do poorly among evangelical Christians but I’d say they make more of an effort and they certainly aren’t trying to stop them from voting.
For the record, from what I have seen Republicans don’t seem to talk to Jews about anything other than Israel. There’s not much daylight between them and the Democrats on that issue (which results in a lot of phony outrage) and that’s a group of voters that tend to be socially liberal. With Hispanic voters, they openly hostile to things like raising the minimum wage and if they support immigration reform they’ll have to be dragged into it kicking and screaming- the right has been killing immigration reform proposals for more than a decade. It’s possible that the demographics of these groups are going to change, but Republicans do not have a lot going for them here.
I’m sure the Republican focus on union-busting is going to bring them a ton of new working class white voters.
You’re playing the Glenn Beck game. Find something you don’t like, then follow a trail to someone you really don’t like, and then make them the center of your campaign against that thing you don’t like.
The fact is, the ICE union is right on the merits of the case, they just lack standing. Who backed their lawsuit doesn’t matter if they are right on the merits of the law. It’s just a way of diverting from the fact that ICE is right on the law.
Historically worse, yes, but they’ve made gains in the Obama era. Now they lose 68-32 instead of 75-25. Whereas with Hispanics they’ve gone backwards.
I think it’s more that black voters have developed brand loyalty for Democrats because Democrats are the party of the federal government and black voters distrust state governments. Since the GOP isn’t going to change on that count, winning black voters is never possible. It’s more the history than what the GOP currently does. As for voter ID laws, support for such laws is overwhelming. Even if it hurts with black voters, it’s not racist to support race-neutral laws that every other group supports. Black voters are no more likely to be without ID than other groups.
To me, there’s two keys to winning the minority vote: good old fashioned persuasion, and economics. If minorities get richer, they’ll vote Republican more. Catering to specific policy desires of interest groups gets you nowhere, since Democrats are always willing to outbid the Republicans.
It’s working so far. Not so much because white working class voters love Republicans, so much as Democrats have become actively hostile, prioritizing environmental issues over jobs, and immigrants over native born poor workers. Shutting down a coal mine or an oil rig has the same effect as union busting.
Nope, it is just a factor, but it is an important one as it exposes the extremists that are manipulating the Republican party, BTE Glenn beck can bite me, his evidence was stupid or non-existant. The difference here is that I found evidence of who Kovatch and the Groups financing the lawsuit came from.
And that was not the point you tap dancer, the point was why the Republicans get the racist label to stick to them. One of the big reasons IMHO is **precisely **the **avoidance **of looking who they are getting in bed with efforts like the ICE lawsuit.
And the fact is that the Judge told then that there was no merit, but check the thread again and one can see that it did not matter that many other experts told them so, many people were fooled into agreeing with them that this was a sure thing. A sure thing for a birther perhaps.
Yes. That would seem to argue against the ‘they have a shot at making gains’ theory.
Right- it must be brand loyalty. Or a political machine, or a plantation, or brainwashing, or fraud. It couldn’t possibly have anything to do with the way Republicans talk about black people or the effects of their policies. I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re right that black voters are less likely to trust state governments based on the history there, but you can’t even come close to being accurate on this issue if you leave out what Republicans say and what they want to do.
This is pointless. You know very well that only one party is proposing and enacting these laws.
Who do you think believes this?
[quote]
Black voters are no more likely to be without ID than other groups. Wrong, of course.
Yeah, neither of those seems to be a priority. Guys like Steve King aren’t very persuasive to minority voters and I don’t think the policies Republicans are proposing with regard to wages and immigration are going to do much to help. If they come up with some other ideas things could change. Right now they could hardly be doing worse.
Yes, it’s their strong share of the white working class vote that powered McCain and Romney to victory.
They did great among working class voters, at least the ones who showed up. Most working class white voters seem to be staying home these days because neither party is looking out for them.
As for the rest of your arguments, I haven’t said that I know specifically what the GOP can do to win minority voters. I’ve only spoken in broad strokes about that without any plan for how to get there. I just wanted to point out that minority voters other than blacks are winnable for the GOP and they’ve come fairly close in the past to winning them. and can do so again given the right circumstances and ideas. If I knew how to fix all the GOP’s problems I’d probably be running the RNC right now.
But to me, the idea that the GOP is actually racist is pure BS. A racist party wouldn’t just be losing the minority vote, they’d be losing 90% of minority voters consistently. Who is going to support a party that hates them? Are one out of three minority voters self-hating? On the merits, the racism argument is stupid. But it does convince some voters, so it’s effective to an extent. And you know what, that’s politics. Just don’t whine when Republicans use similar tactics to convince various groups of voters that Democrats hate them or don’t care about them. It’s entirely fair to use things like the Keystone pipeline or the administration’s war on fossil fuels or support for amnesty as evidence of an anti-working class agenda.
It’s unseemly for Democrats to exploit Republican policies that seem to have a disparate impact on certain groups, while whining that Republicans exploit Democratic policies in the same way. A good example is the law and order, tough on crime debates, where Republicans moved a lot of white voters into their camp.
That’s the whine. Getting tough on crime wasn’t appealing to racists, it was appealing to swing voters who were concerned about crime. REpublican success led to a lot of whining, but eventually most Democrats just joined the Republicans since they couldn’t beat them.
As pointed before by others, not all Republicans are racists, but several racists are Republican. Playing the “ignore the racists” card is not bound to get minorities to support the party.
