# The GOP is the party of Authoritarian Bullies and Gaslighting now **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 23, 2019, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-is-the-party-of-authoritarian-bullies-and-gaslighting-now/832943 "2019-04-23T15:48:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2019, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-is-the-party-of-authoritarian-bullies-and-gaslighting-now/832943/101 "2019-04-25T23:33:24Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > The wall isn’t the government getting out of the way, the muslim ban isn’t the government getting out of the way. Passing restrictive abortion laws isn’t the government getting out of the way. Voter suppression isn’t the government getting out of the way. They may talk about that in theory, but that isn’t what they actually do in practice. But you were asking about leadership/ideas for the future; I figured the hope is, _that_ part, the part you mentioned — when you said, if we’re not doing that, then what the hell are we doing? — _that_ doesn’t have to come from representatives in office; it can come from private innovation, like I was just saying. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-is-the-party-of-authoritarian-bullies-and-gaslighting-now/832943/102 "2019-04-26T03:48:04Z")
Maybe a little comparison would illuminate the issue? It is claimed the election will be about ‘now’. It is suggested that running on ‘the Dems are terrible’ amounts to a position since, yanno, the Dems _are_ terrible. This is disputed, taken as evidence that the GOP is pretty empty when it comes to public policy proposals. Let’s take a look at something the Dems are actually proposing, in their own words. Check out the table of contents of [HR1, The For the People Act 2019.](https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/1/text) (Note: text of entire bill). > [@](#): > > To expand Americans’ access to the ballot box, reduce the influence of big money in politics, and strengthen ethics rules for public servants, and for other purposes. It goes on for hundreds of pages with suggestions on how to make registration and voting better, various ethical suggestions, more proper campaign finance and so on. I’d say it is ‘now’- a live bill in the current Congress? Sure. Ok, which of those ideas are sinister? Why hasn’t this bill been discussed in the Senate rather than gagged by McConnell? Has the GOP produced anything comparable to HR1? The only relevant legal document stretching hundreds of pages that I can think of is the Mueller Report, which is quite the litany of misdeeds and pretty ‘terrible’ if read as a policy roadmap for America. In this light, the vast quantity of (obviously debatable) Democratic proposals compared to the miniscule production of GOP formal public policy makes the OP look like he has a point, at least. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-is-the-party-of-authoritarian-bullies-and-gaslighting-now/832943/103 "2019-04-26T04:32:00Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Obama wasn’t that long ago. Remember the Hope and Change thing? > > We can talk about what is happening right now but we can’t just all give up on having a direction as a society can we? Aren’t we obligated to try to form a more perfect union, to try to improve things for the next generations? If not, then what the hell are we doing? Many of us are just trying to survive. The American Dream is dead. We can’t spare much thought for the future when simply paying the bills takes all our time and money. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-is-the-party-of-authoritarian-bullies-and-gaslighting-now/832943/104 "2019-04-26T12:48:22Z")
The American Dream is easier to achieve than ever before. There is dissonance between the preferences people demonstrate through their haphazard spending and choices and the preferences they want everyone to think they have, so they find a boogieman. Depending on the boogieman they envision, they join a tribe. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-is-the-party-of-authoritarian-bullies-and-gaslighting-now/832943/105 "2019-04-26T13:14:27Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > The American Dream is easier to achieve than ever before. There is dissonance between the preferences people demonstrate through their haphazard spending and choices and the preferences they want everyone to think they have, so they find a boogieman. Depending on the boogieman they envision, they join a tribe. Let’s hear more of this kind of beautiful, faith-based, self-help, infomercial-type mantras! Preach, brother! You too can be rich and successful, and all it will cost you is the price of a sandwich each day! PM me for the address to send checks! ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-is-the-party-of-authoritarian-bullies-and-gaslighting-now/832943/106 "2019-04-26T15:12:12Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > The American Dream is easier to achieve than ever before. There is dissonance between the preferences people demonstrate through their haphazard spending and choices and the preferences they want everyone to think they have, so they find a boogieman. Depending on the boogieman they envision, they join a tribe. Sure, sure… Well, actually no - if you l[ook at what is happening,](https://qz.com/1130126/millennials-will-face-worse-income-inequality-than-previous-generations-according-to-credit-suisse/) rather than just spouting feel-good slogans. > [@](#): > > millennials are generally saddled with more student debt, less inherited money, and stricter mortgages than previous generations. At the same time, a lucky few are set to become spectacularly wealthy, widening the already large gap between rich and poor. Who is going to find the American Dream? Fewer and fewer people. Who are these people? Those who pay big money to go to top universities (or get mommy or daddy to bribe people or fix their SAT’s). Those who inherit large sums. So the American dream IS certainly available… if you family is rich. If you were not born rich, then it is your own fault for being born in a stupid way.“” [Here’s an old report from 2007 -](https://web.archive.org/web/20120503130834/http://www.brookings.edu/papers/2007/05useconomics_morton.aspx) and it has gotten worse since then. Bottom line; The US sucks for intergenerational economic mobility. "Recent studies suggest that there is less economic mobility in the United States than has long been presumed. The last thirty years has seen a considerable drop-off in median household income growth compared to earlier generations. And, by some measurements, we are actually a less mobile society than many other nations, including Canada, France, Germany and most Scandinavian countries. This challenges the notion of America as the land of opportunity. " So these are the facts. But I’m sure that they can be countered with some more feel-good platitudes. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-is-the-party-of-authoritarian-bullies-and-gaslighting-now/832943/107 "2019-04-26T17:21:02Z")
I’m sorry that very many resign to take government jobs or government-financed jobs instead of trying for the American dream of entrepreneurship. This is bound to lead to lack of fulfillment. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Let’s hear more of this kind of beautiful, faith-based, self-help, infomercial-type mantras! Preach, brother! You too can be rich and successful, and all it will cost you is the price of a sandwich each day! PM me for the address to send checks! > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Sure, sure… Well, actually no - if you l[ook at what is happening,](https://qz.com/1130126/millennials-will-face-worse-income-inequality-than-previous-generations-according-to-credit-suisse/) rather than just spouting feel-good slogans. They decide to saddle themselves with debt by emulating a decades-old career template. If they had been taught real deal economics and entrepreneurship, they’d be much better off. Sadly state education is…not good. > [@](#): > > Who is going to find the American Dream? Fewer and fewer people. Who are these people? Those who pay big money to go to top universities (or get mommy or daddy to bribe people or fix their SAT’s). Those who inherit large sums. Still more leaning on old careet templates. That’s why you should teach your children the facts about money and success, not simply entreat them to follow these old, obviously failing, formulas. > [@](#): > > So the American dream IS certainly available… if you family is rich. If you were not born rich, then it is your own fault for being born in a stupid way.“” Yes, this rhetoric speaks to an ideology forwarded by unsuccessful Boomers. It has unfortunately pervaded much of American society. > [@](#): > > [Here’s an old report from 2007 -](https://web.archive.org/web/20120503130834/http://www.brookings.edu/papers/2007/05useconomics_morton.aspx) and it has gotten worse since then. Bottom line; The US sucks for intergenerational economic mobility. Many factors can account for this including the ascendancy of the ideology mentioned above. There is also the fact that the US has become more statist while other countries went through a phase like that and are rebounding and becoming more liberal. Entrepreneurship is not sneered at as it is by many Sad Boomers and their disciples in the US. > [@](#): > > "Recent studies suggest that there is less economic mobility in the United States than has long been presumed. The last thirty years has seen a considerable drop-off in median household income growth compared to earlier generations. And, by some measurements, we are actually a less mobile society than many other nations, including Canada, France, Germany and most Scandinavian countries. This challenges the notion of America as the land of opportunity. " > > So these are the facts. But I’m sure that they can be countered with some more feel-good platitudes. What are the net immigration statistics with these countries? May give you a hint towards the reality of the situation. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-is-the-party-of-authoritarian-bullies-and-gaslighting-now/832943/108 "2019-04-26T17:27:15Z")
“Entrepeneurship” is the American dream? Here I was, thinking that the country needs doctors, engineers, tradespeople, teachers, artists/creators, etc. – people who just want to do fulfilling work and take care of their families, in addition to the folks who have the desire and temperament to start a business. Starting a business can certainly be a worthy thing to do, but so can many other paths. But I commend **WillFarnaby** once again on his psychic powers – he and he alone knows that I (and many others who he’s never met) have a “lack of fulfillment”. Bravo to you for your mind powers! Once again, I’ll urge you to use them for good. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-is-the-party-of-authoritarian-bullies-and-gaslighting-now/832943/109 "2019-04-26T17:31:18Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > “Entrepeneurship” is the American dream? Here I was, thinking that the country needs doctors, engineers, tradespeople, teachers, artists/creators, etc. – people who just want to do fulfilling work and take care of their families, in addition to the folks who have the desire and temperament to start a business. Starting a business can certainly be a worthy thing to do, but so can many other paths. > > But I commend **WillFarnaby** once again on his psychic powers – he and he alone knows that I (and many others who he’s never met) have a “lack of fulfillment”. Bravo to you for your mind powers! Once again, I’ll urge you to use them for good. If more people pursued entrepreneurship, there would be more economic activity and innovation. They would hire more of all the workers you mentioned above, spreading the American dream in all its interpretations. Sadly the dominant ideology fromTrump to Bernie to Hillary is stagnation and boogiemen. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-is-the-party-of-authoritarian-bullies-and-gaslighting-now/832943/110 "2019-04-26T17:35:48Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > If more people pursued entrepreneurship, there would be more economic activity and innovation. All hail the sacred entrepeneurship! The answer to all our dreams and hopes! Kudos to you for your incredible, unwavering and cite-free faith that this single concept can solve all of our problems! > [@](#): > > They would hire more of all the workers you mentioned above, spreading the American dream in all its interpretations. Sadly the dominant ideology fromTrump to Bernie to Hillary is stagnation and boogiemen. Boo to stagnation and boogiemen and all who advocate for them! I certainly stand with you against any politicians who advocate for stagnation and boogiemen. I promise not to vote for any pro-stagnation and pro-boogiemen candidates. Wonderful to see how we can come together! ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-is-the-party-of-authoritarian-bullies-and-gaslighting-now/832943/111 "2019-04-26T17:37:25Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > If more people pursued entrepreneurship, there would be more economic activity and innovation. They would hire more of all the workers you mentioned above, spreading the American dream in all its interpretations. Sadly the dominant ideology fromTrump to Bernie to Hillary is stagnation and boogiemen. Hey, it’s the SamuelA of economics! ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-is-the-party-of-authoritarian-bullies-and-gaslighting-now/832943/112 "2019-04-26T17:43:12Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > All hail the sacred entrepeneurship! The answer to all our dreams and hopes! Kudos to you for your incredible, unwavering and cite-free faith that this single concept can solve all of our problems! > > Boo to stagnation and boogiemen and all who advocate for them! I certainly stand with you against any politicians who advocate for stagnation and boogiemen. I promise not to vote for any pro-stagnation and pro-boogiemen candidates. > > Wonderful to see how we can come together! My cite is the previous two centuries of capitlaist growth. If readin’ is a chore, they have picher books of the ol’ days. As for your belief in political transformation, the candidates are a symptom of bad ideology in society. It can’t be fixed by your vote. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-is-the-party-of-authoritarian-bullies-and-gaslighting-now/832943/113 "2019-04-26T17:54:37Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > My cite is the previous two centuries of capitlaist growth. If readin’ is a chore, they have picher books of the ol’ days. Indeed! Why make any actual effort at arguing, when you can spout platitudes and say “history”? Especially when it doesn’t appear that you’re actually challenging anything I’ve said? > [@](#): > > As for your belief in political transformation, the candidates are a symptom of bad ideology in society. It can’t be fixed by your vote. Even better than platitudes and effort-free appeals to history – meaningless gobbledygook that has nothing to do with anything I said. Kudos again! Queue for your mind-reading ability… this is when you usually tell me something about my deepest feelings and thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-is-the-party-of-authoritarian-bullies-and-gaslighting-now/832943/114 "2019-04-26T18:02:47Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > If more people pursued entrepreneurship, there would be more economic activity and innovation. They would hire more of all the workers you mentioned above, spreading the American dream in all its interpretations. Sadly the dominant ideology fromTrump to Bernie to Hillary is stagnation and boogiemen. You get fucking stupider every day. You’re in another thread today blasting a national health care system that is being offered as a boost to entrepreneurism. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-is-the-party-of-authoritarian-bullies-and-gaslighting-now/832943/115 "2019-04-26T18:11:40Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Hey, it’s the SamuelA of economics! I hadn’t put the pieces together. I think you’ve nailed it. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-is-the-party-of-authoritarian-bullies-and-gaslighting-now/832943/116 "2019-04-26T18:15:21Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > You get fucking stupider every day. You’re in another thread today blasting a national health care system that is being offered as a boost to entrepreneurism. Yes I “blast” nationalization of industries. I wonder how many insurance entrepreneurs there will be under your left wing fantasyland plans. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-is-the-party-of-authoritarian-bullies-and-gaslighting-now/832943/117 "2019-04-26T18:21:05Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I don’t think anyone can be blamed for not being able to tell the asinine political bullshit you spew satirically from the asinine political bullshit you spew earnestly. WillFarnaby is the boy who cried _DERF!_ ---
**Author:** ![Skypist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skypist/32/169_2.png) [@Skypist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skypist)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-is-the-party-of-authoritarian-bullies-and-gaslighting-now/832943/118 "2019-04-26T20:20:25Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > You get fucking stupider every day. You’re in another thread today blasting a national health care system that is being offered as a boost to entrepreneurism. This. I love how the GOP waxes on and on about entrepreneurship and “small business“ while insisting on keeping the old method of obtaining health coverage for most people, which is getting it from an employer. And like other posters, I’m not sure that entrepreneurs would somehow fix everything anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-is-the-party-of-authoritarian-bullies-and-gaslighting-now/832943/119 "2019-04-26T20:34:53Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Yes I “blast” nationalization of industries. I wonder how many insurance entrepreneurs there will be under your left wing fantasyland plans. Oh, those poor, poor insurance entrepreneurs. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-is-the-party-of-authoritarian-bullies-and-gaslighting-now/832943/120 "2019-04-26T20:58:54Z")
I’m not sure about other nations, but private health insurance still exists in Canada - it branched off into fields the single-payer system didn’t cover or only partly covered, like dental. If American entrepreneurs can’t similarly adapt, I guess that’s just a reflection of the weakness of Americans. Do better, you silly silly people! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-is-the-party-of-authoritarian-bullies-and-gaslighting-now/832943.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gop-is-the-party-of-authoritarian-bullies-and-gaslighting-now/832943.md?page=7)