# The Grail **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 17, 2008, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922 "2008-09-17T01:04:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/181 "2008-09-27T16:48:47Z")
> [@maatorc](#): > > All the occult-mystical-esoteric _doctrines and practices_ associated with all past and present legend-based religions, Eastern and Western, are anatomically driven. Look, **maatorc** , you have dodged every question I’ve thrown at you and very close to all of the questions everyone else has thrown at you. The board’s stated goal is fighting ignorance. This requires two things: (1) Stating and explaining your thesis. You haven’t done so. The only evidence you’ve presented of religions being “anatomically-driven” is a couple of paintings. Please explain how Christianity, Wicca, the Norse pantheon or American Indian Shamanism are “anatomically-driven,” because we don’t see it. (2) Having an open mind and listening to the other side. Personally, I feel that you’re just here proselytizing. You don’t appear to have any interest in hearing anyone else’s point of view. You just want to convert everybody to your belief system _without even explaining what it is_. Unless you can do these two things, this thread is going absolutely nowhere. ---
**Author:** ![SiXSwordS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@SiXSwordS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SiXSwordS)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/182 "2008-09-27T17:50:39Z")
> [@John\_W.Kennedy](#): > > He’s already admitted, in today’s post made at 8:26 P.M., that he was lying about Christianity. I’m not trying to play the junior mod here, but it is so simple to link to a specific post that this seems a little roundabout. Not to mention that, one my end, there is NO post at 8:26 P.M. In which post did he admit that he was lying about Christainity? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/183 "2008-09-27T18:31:15Z")
> [@SiXSwordS](#): > > I’m not trying to play the junior mod here, but it is so simple to link to a specific post that this seems a little roundabout. > > Not to mention that, one my end, there is NO post at 8:26 P.M. > > In which post did he admit that he was lying about Christainity? Probably just a sacred time zone ventricle. This post was 8:26 in my astral dimension: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=483679&page=4](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=483679&page=4) ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/184 "2008-09-27T18:59:17Z")
And to further clarify, that would be post #152. ---
**Author:** ![maatorc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@maatorc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maatorc)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/185 "2008-09-27T23:32:08Z")
Let us go back to the essence of what I say. There is a pre-existing, traditional knowledge system-myth behind the New Testament which is a legend to transmit this myth. Likewise the Grail Legend characters, places, and events are all symbolic of this myth of occult human anatomy. The ‘quest’ in the Grail is the ‘Sacred Marriage’. The myth is that of human perfectibility. In the New Testament it is symbolically personified in ‘Jesus’, whose powers and attainments exactly agree with those of ‘Horus’ in the Egyptian Mysteries. Hermeticism, Alchemy, and Kabala, transmit the myth. In short, as some like to say: The proper study of Man is Man! ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/186 "2008-09-27T23:36:45Z")
> [@maatorc](#): > > Let us go back to the essence of what I say. > > There is a pre-existing, traditional knowledge system-myth behind the New Testament which is a legend to transmit this myth. Prove it. Prove that this myth exists let alone pre-exists. I mean actual evidence, not more unproven assertions. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/187 "2008-09-27T23:39:37Z")
Actually, that is an interesting statement in post #152. > [@](#): > > Why do you think the orthodox Christian legend-based ‘empire-religion’ went to so much trouble to try to exterminate every unorthodox ‘occult-anatomy-based’ group? We know that the winning side of the battles in Catholicism did indeed exterminate, for want of a better word, a number of groups who followed alternate interpretations of doctrine. Now if we can only get maatorc to name specific groups and explain why and how they were ‘occult-anatomy-based’ in ways that are different from the mainstream Catholic Church that ensued, think of how much farther we’d be. How about it, maatorc? This is a subject that lends itself to specifics and we have a great many experts on the history and theology of the Catholic Church that would be able to follow any explanation you give. ---
**Author:** ![maatorc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@maatorc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maatorc)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/188 "2008-09-28T00:01:19Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Prove it. Prove that this myth exists let alone pre-exists. I mean actual evidence, not more unproven assertions. Are you saying the ‘events’ in the New Testament actually historically occurred? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/189 "2008-09-28T00:03:28Z")
> [@maatorc](#): > > Are you saying the ‘events’ in the New Testament actually historically occurred? Irrelevant. We known that the suppression of heterodoxy actually historically occurred. So you can address that on a purely factual basis. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/190 "2008-09-28T00:03:42Z")
I am not questioning whether the NT is a myth. I am questioning your assertion that it transmits an older myth about the Great Work, Sacred Marriage, the pineal etc ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/191 "2008-09-28T00:12:28Z")
> [@glee](#): > > Why has nobody mentioned the Illuminati yet? > [@maatorc](#): > > Who are they? You’ve not heard of the [Secret Masters of the World, who have achieved true enlightenment](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminati)? You really need to get out more. ---
**Author:** ![maatorc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@maatorc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maatorc)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/192 "2008-09-28T00:26:23Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > I am not questioning whether the NT is a myth. I am questioning your assertion that it transmits an older myth about the Great Work, Sacred Marriage, the pineal etc I am saying the NT is a ‘legend’. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/193 "2008-09-28T00:30:11Z")
You said > [@](#): > > There is a pre-existing, traditional knowledge system-myth behind the New Testament which is a legend to transmit this myth. Prove to me the existence of the “traditional knowledge system myth” behind the NT. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/194 "2008-09-28T01:09:58Z")
In summary, Maatork has continued to spew out nonsense, has refused to provide any foundation for it, has complained about the lack knolwedge of others participating in this thread, and has refused to provide his own credentials. Colour me impressed. ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/195 "2008-09-28T01:56:27Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > You said > > > [@](#): > > > > There is a pre-existing, traditional knowledge system-myth behind the New Testament which is a legend to transmit this myth. > > Prove to me the existence of the “traditional knowledge system myth” behind the NT. Hell, I’d be happy if he’s just tell us what the “pre-existing traditional knowledge system-myth” _is_, not to mention defining the Great Work and Sacred Marriage, and what they have to do with the third ventricle and the pineal gland. But I’m not holding my breath. I suspect that monkeys will fly out of my butt before that happens. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/196 "2008-09-28T02:02:03Z")
I’m reasonably sure the Great Work (also a term used to describe alchemy and referring to the perfection of man and/or the transformation of flesh to spirit) is the work of perfecting your astral self so that it can function independently of your physical body. I’m still unsure what the Sacred Marriage is exactly ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/197 "2008-09-28T02:16:24Z")
[QUOTE=Maatorc] The myth of occult anatomy refers to the method known as the ‘The Great Work’ which requires a ‘Great Effort’ in order to attain ‘The Great Art’ and discover ‘The Great Secret’ of ‘The Sacred Marriage’, said in the tradition literature to be connected with the functioning of the Third ventricle - Pituitary gland - Pineal ganglia complex. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Shakespeare] Tis all as clear as the summer sun. [/QUOTE] I’m assuming that the Sacred Marriage refers to a joining of the pituitary and the pineal, at which point the astral body is perfected and may leave the physical body. ---
**Author:** ![maatorc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@maatorc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maatorc)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/198 "2008-09-28T02:25:21Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > You said > > > [@](#): > > > > Quote: > > There is a pre-existing, traditional knowledge system-myth behind the New Testament which is a legend to transmit this myth. > > Prove to me the existence of the “traditional knowledge system myth” behind the NT. Do you seriously think the great and knowledgeable writers of the Gospels would create a ‘fiction’ in a ‘vacuum’? If this is so, the fact that the Gospels cannot be actual historical events means they dreamed them up. The pre-existing knowledge system is well demonstrated in Horus and the Egyptian Temple. ---
**Author:** ![maatorc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@maatorc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maatorc)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/199 "2008-09-28T02:29:03Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > I’m assuming that the Sacred Marriage refers to a joining of the pituitary and the pineal, at which point the astral body is perfected and may leave the physical body. The perfection of the mental body, in the myth, **is** associated with the ‘Sacred Marriage’. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/200 "2008-09-28T02:31:18Z")
> [@maatorc](#): > > Do you seriously think the great and knowledgeable writers of the Gospels would create a ‘fiction’ in a ‘vacuum’? Sure. If they felt like it. However, they had centuries of Jewish tradition to draw from. > [@](#): > > If this is so, the fact that the Gospels cannot be actual historical events means they dreamed them up. okey dokey > [@](#): > > The pre-existing knowledge system is well demonstrated in Horus and the Egyptian Temple. No, it isn’t. Egyptian mythology is not my strongest suit. However, Horus was conceived when his mom reassembled Osiris (her brother by the way) and had sex with him. Horus was born and went off to kill his evil uncle Set. Contrast that with JC conceived of a virgin and Prince Of Peace. I am not seeing the parallels. Show me Horus healing the sick, feeding the five thousand etc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922.md?page=11)