# The Grail **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 17, 2008, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922 "2008-09-17T01:04:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![maatorc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@maatorc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maatorc)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/61 "2008-09-23T06:32:29Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > I tried that. Didn’t help. Seriously, can’t you give a brief summary? You started the thread with the claim that all this is well known and readily available. I can find web pages that introduce the basic concepts of quantum physics, Zoroastrianism, the current financial crisis, the Illuminati, Kibology, and nature’s harmonic simultaneous 4-day time cube. Surely occult anatomy can be explained at least as simply as any of those. What I actually said was - > [@](#): > > What is most odd to me about it all is that in \*totally non-secret and often quite readily available literature \*on the ‘mystical’ tradition it is fairly common knowledge that the almost thousands of ‘names’ and ‘descriptions’ and ‘events’ and ‘places’ and ‘treasure’ etc, of the grail ALL stand for ONE-ONLY thing: The grail legend transmits a myth of occult anatomy in which the grail is an organ in the human head associated with what the tradition calls the "Sacred Marriage’. I was pointing out that Dan Brown and other modern authors missed the fact that events, personalities, and places, in the Grail and other legends, without exception refer to organs, systems, and functions within the human being connected with the myth of human perfectibility. The myth of occult anatomy refers to the method known as the ‘The Great Work’ which requires a ‘Great Effort’ in order to attain ‘The Great Art’ and discover ‘The Great Secret’ of ‘The Sacred Marriage’, said in the tradition literature to be connected with the functioning of the Third ventricle - Pituitary gland - Pineal ganglia complex. So when you say: “Seriously, can’t you give a brief summary?” you may now perhaps see that such an approach to such a vast a subject may serve but to trivialize it. A text worthy of serious consideration in this context, but not easy reading, is “The Comte de Gabalis”, a very careful reading of which will tend to point you in the direction of the genuine modern operations of the myth. ---
**Author:** ![Eutychus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Eutychus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eutychus)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/62 "2008-09-23T11:05:45Z")
> [@maatorc](#): > > It is a vast subject. Then don’t give us half vast arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/63 "2008-09-23T12:01:18Z")
On a related note, the 26th is the last day of bidding for a research institute devoted to studying the physical continuation of an undead person who is a a great artist who through his great work was able to cross the bounds of mortality: [http://cgi.ebay.com/ELVIS-IS-ALIVE-MUSEUM-GIFT-SHOP-GRILL\_W0QQitemZ300260153598QQihZ020QQcategoryZ433QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem](http://cgi.ebay.com/ELVIS-IS-ALIVE-MUSEUM-GIFT-SHOP-GRILL_W0QQitemZ300260153598QQihZ020QQcategoryZ433QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) ---
**Author:** ![SeanArenas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeanArenas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeanArenas)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/64 "2008-09-23T12:08:49Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Please, that is like calling him “of Capri”. :rolleyes: Just like da Vinci can mean “Of Vinci” which is a point I made in my post. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/65 "2008-09-23T12:14:21Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Could we get more detailed answers **Maatorc**. What you are saying may be clear to you, but it isn’t to us. It’s that irrational pineal chakra third eye nonsense. I suggest not making eye contact. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/66 "2008-09-23T14:19:31Z")
Oh, come on, **maatorc** , cut the crap. There is no subject in the world that can’t be reasonably introduced in a couple of paragraphs. If you don’t want to discuss or explain it, why did you bring it up? And why should Cecil have mentioned it if anything less than a book-length discussion is “trivializing” it? Why don’t you start by telling me what the third ventrical is? Or why the pineal gland is significant? It’s in the brain, right? What does it do that makes it connected with Jesus? Pretend you’re explaining it to a child or to your mother… ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/67 "2008-09-23T14:54:59Z")
[The Secret Doctrine by H. P. Blavatsky – Vol. 2](http://www.sacred-texts.com/the/sd/sd2-1-17.htm) > [@](#): > > "There were four-armed human creatures in those early days of the male-females (hermaphrodites); with one head, yet three eyes. They could see before them and behind them.\* A KALPA later (after the separation of the sexes) men having fallen into matter, their spiritual vision became dim; and coordinately the third eye commenced to lose its power. . . . When the Fourth (Race) arrived at its middle age, the inner vision had to be awakened, and acquired by artificial stimuli, the process of which was known to the old sages.\*\* . . . The third eye, likewise, getting gradually PETRIFIED,\*\*\* soon disappeared. The double-faced became the one-faced, and the eye was drawn deep into the head and is now buried under the hair. During the activity of the inner man (during trances and spiritual visions) the eye swells and expands. The Arhat sees and feels it, and regulates his action accordingly. . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > [[Footnote(s)]] ------------------------------------------------- > > - Viz., the third eye was at the back of the head. The statement that the latest hermaphrodite humanity was “four-armed,” unriddles probably the mystery of all the representations and idols of the exoteric gods of India. On the Acropolis of Argos, there was a [[Zoanon]], a rudely carved wooden statue (attributed to Daedalus), representing a three-eyed colossus, which was consecrated to Zeus Triopas (three-eyed). The head of the “god” has two eyes in its face and one above on the top of the forehead. It is considered the most archaic of all the ancient statues (Schol. Vatic. ad Eurip. Troad. 14). > > \*\* The Inner sight could henceforth be acquired only through training and initiation, save in the cases of “natural and born magicians,” sensitives and mediums, as they are called now. > > \*\*\* This expression “petrified” instead of “ossified” is curious. The “back eye,” which is of course the pineal gland, now so-called, the small pea-like mass of grey nervous matter attached to the back of the third ventricle of the brain, is said to almost invariably contain mineral concretions and sand, and “nothing more.” (Vide Infra.) Reads to me like even Balvatsky didn’t believe in this, once science took its course. Also see [The Comte De Gabalis by Abbé N. de Montfaucon de Villars [1913]](http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/cdg/index.htm) > [@](#): > > 29:XXV p. 30 WHEN YOUR EYES HAVE BEEN STRENGTHENED.–A ganglion of the sympathetic nervous system, known as the pineal gland, is situated in the brain directly posterior to the extremity of the third ventricle. " From its broad anterior end two white bands pass forward, one on the inner side of each optic thalamus." When through the use of the Holy Catholic Medecine (government of Solar Force) the pineal gland is regenerated, it endows man with superphysical or seer vision. That’s the only paragrpah I find a reference to pineal or ventricle, though. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/68 "2008-09-23T15:45:00Z")
There are more things in Heaven and in Earth than are dreamt of in your Theosophy. There should be a Saturday morning puppet show called “Havin’ Some Cookies With Madame Blavatsky!” ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/69 "2008-09-23T15:49:41Z")
> [@maatorc](#): > > The _underlying ideas_ of the several legends of the myth are of course not the same as the several examples of _overlying trivia_ that you mention. I’ve been trying to follow what you’re talking about **maatorc** ; really I have. But what it comes down to is this: The “overlying trivia” are actual historical facts. The “underlying ideas” are whatever Manly Palmer Hall dreamed up that connects them. I’m sure if I was willing to put the time into it, I could show that every single one of the “several legends of the myth” repeatedly involves a tree, or the number 27, or the concept of life and death. Correlation is not causation, and from what I’ve seen here, your thesis has about as much credibility as astrology, numerology, or telling the future through sheep entrails. ---
**Author:** ![paperbackwriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/70 "2008-09-23T20:08:07Z")
> [@maatorc](#): > > So when you say: “Seriously, can’t you give a brief summary?” you may now perhaps see that such an approach to such a vast a subject may serve but to trivialize it. There’s no way to say this without sounding hostile, but this is the worst cop-out you could have posted. We have cogent threads discussing quantum mechanics, aerodynamics, and economics, all subjects at least a vast and detailed as this subject. You have yet to post anything that doesn’t amount to: “I have some secret knowledge I’m not sharing with you all, you have to find it yourselves, but Cecil should have said it.” If you can’t talk about it, how in the world can you criticize Cecil for not acknowledging it in the original column? Either it is such a huuuuuuge subject that it wouldn’t fit into the original column (which has a very firm word count limit being intended for dead-tree media), or your thesis is a load of nonsense. I can’t honestly tell which possibility is more likely from your posts, but each dodge of a question leans me in one direction over the other. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/71 "2008-09-23T20:32:07Z")
> [@paperbackwriter](#): > > You have yet to post anything that doesn’t amount to: “I have some secret knowledge I’m not sharing with you all, you have to find it yourselves, but Cecil should have said it.” On the contrary, **pbw** , what he said was that the information is > [@maatorc](#): > > totally non-secret and often quite readily available. Everything he’s said since amounts to “I have a truely marvelous proof of this myth which this messageboard is too narrow to contain.” ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/72 "2008-09-23T21:09:29Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > Everything he’s said since amounts to “I have a truely marvelous proof of this myth which this messageboard is too narrow to contain.” Well, we just recovered 1,300,000 old deleted posts, and I think we have enough space to squeeze in his proof. Then we can follow up with a proof that all myths actually have their basis in bunny poop. ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/73 "2008-09-23T21:49:45Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > On the contrary, **pbw** , what he said was that the information is Everything he’s said since amounts to “I have a truely marvelous proof of this myth which this messageboard is too narrow to contain.” That, or he provides links to books about the subject, which I suppose we’re all supposed to go out and buy in order to learn about it. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/74 "2008-09-23T22:00:31Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > Well, we just recovered 1,300,000 old deleted posts, and I think we have enough space to squeeze in his proof. Then we can follow up with a proof that all myths actually have their basis in bunny poop. Sorry, I knew I should have cited the [original](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermat's_Last_Theorem) quote. ---
**Author:** ![maatorc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@maatorc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maatorc)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/75 "2008-09-24T00:12:31Z")
> [@LurkMeister](#): > > That, or he provides links to books about the subject, which I suppose we’re all supposed to go out and buy in order to learn about it. Something is being missed by posters here. A ‘legend’ is a device to transmit a myth. A ‘Myth’ is a knowledge system I am saying the myth of occult anatomy exists, not that it is true or false. Contrary to appearances the legends are not historical records of actual events. Dan Brown and other recent writers make physical facts of the purely symbolic ‘characters’, ‘places’ and ‘events’ in the legends. An excellent example of a legend-myth is “The Iliad” by Homer which transmits the myth of the Precession which was well understood by the Ancients. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/76 "2008-09-24T00:39:32Z")
How’s about just giving us 500 words on the meaning of the term “occult anatomy”? We could start there. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/77 "2008-09-24T01:13:42Z")
> [@maatorc](#): > > Dan Brown and other recent writers make physical facts of the purely symbolic ‘characters’, ‘places’ and ‘events’ in the legends. Dan Brown is a writer of fiction. That is about all he has in common with the sources you cite. ---
**Author:** ![maatorc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@maatorc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maatorc)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/78 "2008-09-24T01:40:54Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > …Seriously, can’t you give a brief summary? … See “Comte de Gabalis” p. 297 > [@](#): > > MASTER DEFINED… > 1…A Master is _an evolved being_ who > 2…_has perfected a mental body_… > 3…in which he _can function consciously while out of his physical vehicle_… This summaries 1…The meaning, 2…The means, and 3…The purpose, of the myth of occult anatomy. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/79 "2008-09-24T04:23:33Z")
> [@maatorc](#): > > See “Comte de Gabalis” Truely laughable. [http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/cdg/index.htm](http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/cdg/index.htm) ---
**Author:** ![maatorc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@maatorc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maatorc)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922/80 "2008-09-24T05:06:22Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Truely laughable. [http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/cdg/index.htm](http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/cdg/index.htm) The existence of the myth or The truth of the myth? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grail/463922.md?page=5)