# The Grand, Official Cult of... Santa? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 23, 2003, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grand-official-cult-of-santa/220569 "2003-12-23T01:43:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![gubernator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@gubernator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gubernator)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grand-official-cult-of-santa/220569/1 "2003-12-23T01:43:08Z")
Why haven’t a cult where Santa Clause is worshipped and deified, ala, say, Buddha or Jesus popped up yet? Santa’s considered fairly benevolent, with some impressive supernatural powers and is already well known. Sounds like a good candidate for a god, to me. I can certainly see how someone can apply some made up mumbo jumbo about how he really, REALLY exists, and can be coerced to bring forth fortune and success, and much more than merely gifts of toy at one day in a year, if given the proper bribes. Knowing the nature of people, such a cult would at least be able to find some believers. Ex: Give High Priest of Santa (say, me) the things you wish to sacrifice to santa. High Priest performs ritual burning of items, mumbles a few words, takes some money from ya (cause Santa likes his High Priests well fed and respected), then promises you success in your endeavors, what with the omens looking good and all. ---
**Author:** ![Gmork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f19dbf/32.png) [@Gmork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gmork)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grand-official-cult-of-santa/220569/2 "2003-12-23T03:25:26Z")
Well, it doesn’t have any such ritual as your describe - but the closest thing to this that does exist is the community consisting of an awful lot of little kids. A lot of whom will tell you, and each other, that he really, REALLY does exist. Thats as much help as I can be. But I do agree, considering all the other wierd premises that have been given for starting cults so far, it’s a little odd no one has thought of this yet. I hope you didn’t give some nut any ideas! Perhaps some feel he’s already another religion’s, erm ‘property’ - being Saint Nicholas and all. I don’t know - guess which orifice I’m talking out of right now? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grand-official-cult-of-santa/220569/3 "2003-12-23T03:38:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gubernator \* > Why haven’t a cult where Santa Clause is worshipped and deified, ala, say, Buddha or Jesus popped up yet? The Buddha is not deified, except in the minds of non-Buddhists who don’t know what they’re talking about. (BTW, Mohammed is not deified either.) ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grand-official-cult-of-santa/220569/4 "2003-12-23T07:21:14Z")
Because Santa doesn’t demand any such deification, and we obligate him by not doing so. Which, of course, makes Santa more morally upright than Jesus– Jesus: “Worship me or burn in hellfire for eternity.” Santa: “Worship me or not, I don’t mind. Ho ho ho!” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grand-official-cult-of-santa/220569/5 "2003-12-23T09:09:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gubernator \* > Why haven’t a cult where Santa Clause is worshipped and deified, ala, say, Buddha or Jesus popped up yet? > > Santa’s considered fairly benevolent, with some impressive supernatural powers and is already well known. Sounds like a good candidate for a god, to me. > > I can certainly see how someone can apply some made up mumbo jumbo about how he really, REALLY exists, and can be coerced to bring forth fortune and success, and much more than merely gifts of toy at one day in a year, if given the proper bribes. Knowing the nature of people, such a cult would at least be able to find some believers. > > Ex: Give High Priest of Santa (say, me) the things you wish to sacrifice to santa. High Priest performs ritual burning of items, mumbles a few words, takes some money from ya (cause Santa likes his High Priests well fed and respected), then promises you success in your endeavors, what with the omens looking good and all. Santa Claus doesn’t want worshippers. You should just give Xmas presents, especially to children. Santa doesn’t want mumbo jumbo, coercion or bribes. You should just give Xmas presents, especially to children. Santa especially doesn’t want High Priests misinterpreting his message and taking your money, which should be used for … you get the idea. Santa doesn’t promise success. But you (and the children) will feel good. To be honest, Santa’s philosophy impresses me far more than any God’s. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grand-official-cult-of-santa/220569/6 "2003-12-23T18:36:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\*Because Santa doesn’t demand any such deification, and we obligate him by not doing so. > > Which, of course, makes Santa more morally upright than Jesus– > > Jesus: “Worship me or burn in hellfire for eternity.” > Santa: “Worship me or not, I don’t mind. Ho ho ho!” > > 😃 \*\* Your post is false. Jesus does not say to worship Him anywhere. God does not require worship either. Love ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grand-official-cult-of-santa/220569/7 "2003-12-23T18:44:57Z")
I think the Op makes a lot of sense when asking “How come there is no other cult then what we see right now”. Santa Claus being something that is rather “US” habit then “world”, and the US being fertile ground for all kind of sects popping up, it is indeed strange that nobody used this figure to create some kind of cult. Maybe because the Santa Claus appearance around Christmas is such a widely spread custom, nobody dares to touch the issue since there would be too much criticism on it from the very beginning. But if I was the OP, I would start a website trying it out. You never know. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grand-official-cult-of-santa/220569/8 "2003-12-23T18:50:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lekatt \* > God does not require worship either. Well God does demand offerings and obedience to His commandments. What word would you use? What is the relationship between man and God? ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grand-official-cult-of-santa/220569/9 "2003-12-23T18:53:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aldebaran \* > Santa Claus being something that is rather “US” habit then “world”, > Salaam. A Funny, I thought Santa Claus was pretty universal. We certainly have him in the UK… ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grand-official-cult-of-santa/220569/10 "2003-12-23T19:09:02Z")
Well, you don’t see much of him in Belgium, for example. There they have the version of the Catholic saint who comes by night (6 to 7 december) to plant presents for the children, and who arrives from Spain. Which is always an event for the children and is even “covered” on TV on the day he “officially” arrives. That has nothing to see with the Hoo Hooo Hooo shouting and bell ringling figure one can see walking around in the USA and which is - if I recall well and if my information on the issue was correct - a cult that is the result of what was originally intended to be a publicity stunt of The Coca Cola Company. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grand-official-cult-of-santa/220569/11 "2003-12-23T19:13:34Z")
I’m sure Father Christmas and Pere Noel are shocked at your blinkered understanding. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grand-official-cult-of-santa/220569/12 "2003-12-23T19:24:12Z")
Besides he’s considered a child’s patron. Can you imagine any one seriously trying to sell an adult on the idea that Santa will grant them power/life/riches? After a lifetime of begin raised within the context of Santa = children, it would seem to make recruiting harder. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grand-official-cult-of-santa/220569/13 "2003-12-23T19:39:29Z")
Grey, I’m not talking about the saint. I’m talking about the version invented by the Coca Cola company and designed for them in 1931, if I don’t have the year wrong. This seems to have been the result of an earlier publication focussing on advertizing with an identical figure. The whole thing had to do with the crisis and with the fact that Coca Cola was in need of something that would appeal to the larger public, especially families. I can’t help it if companies abuse the child-friendly image of Chrisitan saints and transform them in a rather ridiculous looking and -acting figure. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grand-official-cult-of-santa/220569/14 "2003-12-23T20:08:20Z")
Wouldn’t you rather argue that Santa is actual a pagan grafting of Odin into modern Christmas celebration? Eight tiny reindeer vs. an 8 legged horse Sleipnir? No? Look at Lewis’ “Lion, Witch and the Wardrobe”. Published in 1950 (and was likely worked on earlier than that) Father Christmas appears as a merry gift giver for children. The fact that Coke changed the appearance of the Father Christmas is hardly relevant to the discussion of a powerful gift giving spirit managing not to become a central figure of cult activity. What about “'Twas the Night Before Christmas?” a book published around 1820 which describes Santa Claus as “Jolly old elf” with a belly “that shock like a bowl full of jelly” You could argue that Coke managed to standardize the mental picture of Santa within North America, but I think you’d be hard pressed to argue that Coke _created_ the > [@](#): > > rather ridiculous looking and -acting figure. Unless you’re about to argue that modern North American consumerism is a cult and Santa Claus is our God head. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grand-official-cult-of-santa/220569/15 "2003-12-23T20:47:23Z")
Of course it can be described of pagan origin. Many practices or even celebrations and dogmas in religions can be traced back to pagan origin. Yet that is not what I am talking about. I described the abuse of the figure - be it of pagan origin, purely mythical, or be it connected with a Christian Saint who supposedly really lived - by the Coca Cola company. Trnasforming it to what you see now as “Santa Claus”, which has nothing to do with the Christian version of the story. And yes, now that you mention it: In some ways consumerism could be seen as a form of cult. I wouldn’t say that Santa Claus is the Godhead of it, though. I would give that honour to Capitalism. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grand-official-cult-of-santa/220569/16 "2003-12-23T20:51:59Z")
Forgot: where did I say they “created” the whole idea of the children loving saint? I said their figure has nothing to do with that saint. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grand-official-cult-of-santa/220569/17 "2003-12-23T21:07:15Z")
I gave you 2 widely read tales that date from 1950 and around 1820 respectively. They both have a gift giving figure that comes with December 25th. The figure in the 1820’s one is actually described as _jolly, rides through the air in a sled pulled by 8 reindeer, has a round belly and goes down chimneys to give gifts_. Coke was late by 100 years in transforming Santa Claus. And how can taking a mythical figure divorced from the religious saint, potentially based on prior pagan figures and _associating_ it with drinking soda pop be an abuse? The fact is that at the time Coke’s brightly coloured visual representation of Santa Claus was perfectly positioned to become the dominant mental picture for the North American populace. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grand-official-cult-of-santa/220569/18 "2003-12-23T23:30:45Z")
Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the house Not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse; Account of a Visit from St. Nicholas by Major Henry Livingston Jr. (1748-1828) It’s not a book, it’s a poem! [http://www.night.net/christmas/twas-the-night.html](http://www.night.net/christmas/twas-the-night.html) extracts include: ‘a miniature sleigh, and eight tiny reindeer’ ‘With the sleigh full of toys, and St. Nicholas too’ ‘He was dressed all in fur’ ‘A bundle of toys he had flung on his back’ ‘the beard of his chin was as white as the snow’ ‘He had a broad face and a little round belly’