# The Great American Novel etc. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 11, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-american-novel-etc/496038 "2009-05-11T15:41:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-american-novel-etc/496038/1 "2009-05-11T15:41:33Z")
Which novel do you think qualifies as the Great American Novel and why? People from other countries what would you consider the Great Your Country Novel? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-american-novel-etc/496038/2 "2009-05-11T15:58:38Z")
Phillip Roth’s _The Great American Novel_, of course. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-american-novel-etc/496038/3 "2009-05-11T16:09:27Z")
The term “Great American Novel” is a cliche that refers to a novel that aspiring writers want to write, but never actually manage to write, for whatever reasons. It actually assumes that the U.S. still hasn’t produced a “great” novel, and is a trope in fiction for portraying a character as an idealistic, yet unsuccessful, writer who never gets around to producing said novel. It also assumes that there is some potential novel to be written in the U.S. that will somehow be “great,” that is, greater than all other novels already written, and somehow distinctly “American” and unlike any other novel written throughout the English-speaking world. ---
**Author:** ![Tarwater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de0a6/32.png) [@Tarwater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarwater)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-american-novel-etc/496038/4 "2009-05-11T16:18:44Z")
Adventures of Huckleberry Finn. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-american-novel-etc/496038/5 "2009-05-11T16:19:52Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > The term “Great American Novel” is a cliche that refers to a novel that aspiring writers want to write, but never actually manage to write, for whatever reasons. It actually assumes that the U.S. still hasn’t produced a “great” novel, and is a trope in fiction for portraying a character as an idealistic, yet unsuccessful, writer who never gets around to producing said novel. > > It also assumes that there is some potential novel to be written in the U.S. that will somehow be “great,” that is, greater than all other novels already written, and somehow distinctly “American” and unlike any other novel written throughout the English-speaking world. Ah yeah I know that so maybe I should rephrase the OP. What do you think is the definitive “American” novel? That is, the novel you would most recommend to an outsider to explain American life, culture. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-american-novel-etc/496038/6 "2009-05-11T16:31:33Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > What do you think is the definitive “American” novel? That is, the novel you would most recommend to an outsider to explain American life, culture. Wow, that’s a really good question, because “America” is so varied, and some of the greatest novels, such as _The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn_, as mentioned above, are not so relevant to modern-day United States, though they be great works. At Berkeley I majored in English, and specialized in Victorian English novels, but I was required to take a course in the “American novel.” I’m hard put to find one that is definitively American, simply because the culture has changed so much. I guess you need to say which “America” you want to read about–historically, geographically, and ethnically. There are many, many different Americas. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-american-novel-etc/496038/7 "2009-05-11T16:34:03Z")
Why is America confined to having only one Great Novel, in this argument? Is there a single Great British Novel? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-american-novel-etc/496038/8 "2009-05-11T16:37:26Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > What do you think is the definitive “American” novel? That is, the novel you would most recommend to an outsider to explain American life, culture. Good question. _Huckleberry Finn_ may be the earliest that has a good shot at being the “Great American Novel” in that sense—though of course it doesn’t show what America is like nowadays. A case could be made for _To Kill a Mockingbird_. I don’t know what novel best exemplifies what American life and culture are nowadays. I’m having trouble thinking of good candidates even. I’m interested to see what other people will say, both for America and for other countries. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-american-novel-etc/496038/9 "2009-05-11T16:37:53Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Why is America confined to having only one Great Novel, in this argument? Is there a single Great British Novel? Ah it’s more of an IMHO thing but I’d like people to explain their choices so it isn’t necessarily singular. I don’t want this just to become a list of American novels though. 🙂 There might well be a single Great British Novel, I don’t know but I imagine there are any number of answers. ---
**Author:** ![Tarwater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de0a6/32.png) [@Tarwater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarwater)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-american-novel-etc/496038/10 "2009-05-11T16:45:05Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Why is America confined to having only one Great Novel, in this argument? Is there a single Great British Novel? Yes, and it is _003½: The Adventures of James Bond Junior_. > [@](#): > > Ah it’s more of an IMHO thing but I’d like people to explain their choices so it isn’t necessarily singular. I don’t want this just to become a list of American novels though. I think _The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn_ is more likely than any other American novel to go the distance. Ask the question a century from now, and I think you’re likely to receive an identical answer; no other novel has so perfectly captured the Zeitgeist as _Huckleberry Finn_, and I think no other novel shall, though _To Kill A Mocking Bird_ comes close. _Huckleberry Finn_ really encapsulates a timeless America, I think. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-american-novel-etc/496038/11 "2009-05-11T16:46:57Z")
Maybe “milestone” novel works better? Novels that encompass a particular period in American history, cultural shifts, etc. There will be lots of those. I think _Paradise Falls_ by Don Robertson qualifies. It takes place just after the Civil War, when we were moving from an agrarian economy/rural life to urban/industrial. The main character is a ruthless, amoral man who becomes successful but doesn’t find “happiness”. It’s a great read. Tragically out of print but used copies are everywhere. (I adore Don Robertson.) ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-american-novel-etc/496038/12 "2009-05-11T16:54:35Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Why is America confined to having only one Great Novel, in this argument? Is there a single Great British Novel? That’s another hard question. I don’t think you can pin down just one for British novels, but personally, just for the fun of it, I’d say _Vanity Fair_, though most would opt for something by Dickens or one of the Brontes. The novel, as a form of fiction, has distinct origins in western Europe, so other countries don’t emphasize it as much as some kind of culturally defining genre. They all have them, but they seem to have a sense that it’s a cultural import. But for some countries, I bet the people of those countries would have a pretty unanimous answer. France: _Madam Bovary_ Spain: _Don Quixoti_ Colombia: _One Hundred Years of Solitude_ Germany: [Something by Goethe] ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-american-novel-etc/496038/13 "2009-05-11T17:01:53Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Why is America confined to having only one Great Novel, in this argument? Is there a single Great British Novel? I always took “the Great American Novel” to mean “the great novel that expresses, better than any other, the American character.” The Great Novel of American-ness. It’s a commentary on the writer’s ambition, not on the fact that Americans have written zero great novels. Or that’s how I interpreted it. As far as TGAN in that sense, even if the category is silly, I think the easiest nominees are Huck Finn and The Great Gatsby. A well-read friend of mine once suggested Ellison’s Invisible Man. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-american-novel-etc/496038/14 "2009-05-11T17:07:46Z")
Another vote for _Huck Finn_, because it perfectly evokes a quitesennially American place and time (staging, characters, descriptions), and because it’s a great book (plot). ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-american-novel-etc/496038/15 "2009-05-11T17:08:51Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > Maybe “milestone” novel works better? Novels that encompass a particular period in American history, cultural shifts, etc. There will be lots of those. Good point. > [@AuntiePam](#): > > I think _Paradise Falls_ by Don Robertson qualifies. It takes place just after the Civil War, when we were moving from an agrarian economy/rural life to urban/industrial. The main character is a ruthless, amoral man who becomes successful but doesn’t find “happiness”. It’s a great read. Tragically out of print but used copies are everywhere. (I adore Don Robertson.) In light of “milestones,” I would also recommend _The Red Badge of Courage_ and _The Grapes of Wrath_. The former because the Civil War changed the country in so many ways, and the latter because migration to the west of the country set the ground for California to become an economic and cultural force. Really, the OP needs to choose at least five novels to really get a feel for the culture, etc. of the U.S. Just compare _The Grapes of Wrath_ with _Catcher in the Rye_. Neither will give you a comprehensive view of U.S. culture, but both are kind of essential nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-american-novel-etc/496038/16 "2009-05-11T17:16:20Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > As far as TGAN in that sense, even if the category is silly, I think the easiest nominees are Huck Finn and The Great Gatsby… Yes, I’d include _Gatsby_ (though I wasn’t really impressed by it, nor by _Catcher in the Rye_), simply because of its influence. But, yes, if I had only one to choose, I’d choose _Huck Finn_. I think some will say that there’s a difference from being “great” and being a novel that coveys the country’s culture, especially to people who haven’t lived in the country. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-american-novel-etc/496038/17 "2009-05-11T17:21:20Z")
I always thought that “The Great American Novel” was never meant to be singular. That it had always referred to a number(very limited of course)of book that used a narrative form to describe a particular slice of America relevant to a time and place, and of course near critical consensus that it is a good book… Most of my professors put 10-15ish books in the Great American Novel category with some discrepancies. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-american-novel-etc/496038/18 "2009-05-11T17:24:32Z")
How about “The Bonfire of the Vanities” for “Great American Novel” of the 1980s? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-american-novel-etc/496038/19 "2009-05-11T17:48:26Z")
If you’re going to pick novels that depict our country in certain eras,\* Now Playing At Canterbury \*by Vance Bourjaily resonates with me. Published in 1977 and now out of print. The Great Texas Novel? _Lonesome Dove_. (Yes, “The Great American Novel” is kind of a joke.) ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-american-novel-etc/496038/20 "2009-05-11T17:51:00Z")
I’d go with Dos Passos’s USA Trilogy, myself. It’s three separate books, but they definitely form a cohesive picture, and they’re fairly modern (in content and style as well as chronologically), as well. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-american-novel-etc/496038.md?page=2)