# The "Great Books" that you want poo all over and then wrap it up in a bag, then down the chute. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 11, 2011, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379 "2011-08-11T21:28:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![OscarGold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e95f7d/32.png) [@OscarGold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OscarGold)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/1 "2011-08-11T21:28:25Z")
> **[Tom Perrotta, Francine Prose, and others on "great books" that aren't great.](https://slate.com/culture/2011/08/tom-perrotta-francine-prose-and-others-on-great-books-that-aren-t-great.html)** > > Every year for the past three years I've read a Thomas Hardy novel, and every year I've been sorely disappointed. I couldn't get into Tess of the... For me, it has to be Pride & Prejudice by Jane Austen. I found the portrayal of Mr. Collins to be most… uncomfortable… for me… The reason? Well, I am a real-life Mr. Collins: A phony, an ass-kisser, a social-climber. How about you? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/2 "2011-08-11T21:32:26Z")
Well, that seems a bit extreme. For my part, I simply found the book virtually impossible to read. And I _had_ to read it, for a course. This morning, I was waiting next to a woman who was halfway through Austen’s _Nuthanger Abbey_, and loving it. De Gustibus, and all. ---
**Author:** ![teela\_brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/3 "2011-08-11T21:41:31Z")
I couldn’t tolerate _The Great Gatsby_ when it was inflicted on us in high school. Bored rich people swanning about and slumming and it all came to nothing in the end. At least that’s my memory of it nearly forty years later; maybe I’d like it more if I read it now. ---
**Author:** ![maggenpye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecc23a/32.png) [@maggenpye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maggenpye)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/4 "2011-08-11T21:44:16Z")
The _Scarlet Pimpernel_. Dump the untrustworthy bitch already. No, don’t give her another chance - see what she did? Moron. Don’t get me started on _Tess of the D’Urbervilles_, cripes, what an unremitting downer. I love _P&P_, Mr Collins is much funnier than all the other blokes put together. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/5 "2011-08-11T21:46:45Z")
> [@teela\_brown](#): > > I couldn’t tolerate _The Great Gatsby_ when it was inflicted on us in high school. Bored rich people swanning about and slumming and it all came to nothing in the end. At least that’s my memory of it nearly forty years later; maybe I’d like it more if I read it now. Indeed. I liked it much better eighteen years out of high school. _The Scarlet Letter_ can take a flying leap, though. ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/6 "2011-08-11T21:47:00Z")
> [@teela\_brown](#): > > I couldn’t tolerate _The Great Gatsby_ when it was inflicted on us in high school. Bored rich people swanning about and slumming and it all came to nothing in the end. At least that’s my memory of it nearly forty years later; maybe I’d like it more if I read it now. You likely wouldn’t. I just re-read it for a book discussion group, and I tried to go into it with a good attitude. I really did. And the writing is really gorgeous and dreamlike. But the characters are all despicable, half of them die, and then it ends. At least it’s short. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/7 "2011-08-11T21:51:19Z")
heart of darkness. never had 120 pages been so long ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/8 "2011-08-11T21:53:11Z")
I thought **The Glass Bead Game** was fairly undeserving of its Nobel Prize. The author spends something like 1000 pages describing how even the greatest teacher with the most interesting and worthwhile thing to teach can’t seem to make a great impact on his students (except maybe in a one-on-one situation – which we don’t get to see because the book ends before the results can be shown). All of this is as a lead-up to a few short stories that have the actual lessons he wants to teach packed into some 40-50 pages. Personally, I skipped them because, to me, crying for 1000 pages about how hard your life is trying to make other people be as good as you instead of using that same space and effort to try teaching your _actual lessons_ isn’t a very good proof that you’ve actually got much to teach. Fix yourself before you worry about fixing me. If you are fixed (i.e. as good as you seem to believe you are), then it’s on you to prove it not to simply state it up front (expansively). There’s also the issue that any book nominated for a Nobel should succeed on all three fronts of fiction. It should be: 1. Entertaining 2. Use intriguing prose 3. Craft a meaningful message into a story in a non-intrusive way. The book perhaps succeeded on points 2 and 3, but was an abject failure on point #1 (unless you find the prose/message itself entertainment enough – which isn’t what is meant by the criteria). There is no story and nothing happens. It’s 1000 pages of laboriously watching a man do very little and not accomplish much of anything. While a technical feat to pad that out that far, that’s not entertainment. If you have no desire to fashion entertaining stories, there’s no point in writing fiction novels instead of essays. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/9 "2011-08-11T21:57:11Z")
**The Catcher in the Rye** ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/10 "2011-08-11T21:57:29Z")
They nailed mine right off the bat - Thomas Hardy’s _The Return of the Native_. Dreadful. Boring, dull, endlessly dragging on about the heath and the red dirt and the dismal, red, dull, heath. I was assigned this book in high school, and this was the first (and only) reading assignment I couldn’t finish. I even read _Silas Marner_ for Pete’s sake. This book was painful. The other is _Moby Dick_. Last year I decided to give it a go, because the story is famous and all, but reading it is murder. The essays on whaling are bad enough, I don’t need a sermon (an actual sermon!) in my literature. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/11 "2011-08-11T22:13:59Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Thomas Hardy’s _The Return of the Native_. Dreadful. > > This book was painful. Thomas Hardy defines pain. No other famous author causes me more twinges than Hardy. Sadly my senior HS English teacher was a fan. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/12 "2011-08-11T22:16:30Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I thought **The Glass Bead Game** was fairly undeserving of its Nobel Prize. De-lurking to point out that you don’t know what you’re talking about. The Nobel is not awarded for a single work. Never has, never will. It’s a lifetime achievement award. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/13 "2011-08-11T22:19:49Z")
I adore _Pride and Prejudice_! I can’t stand Joyce. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/14 "2011-08-11T22:20:54Z")
Most of the books listed in the link I find at least readable, if not all that enjoyable. For books I would gladly suspend my absolute protection for all books rule, look no further than Dickens. All of them. There is a special circle in Hell for the author of **A Christmas Carol**. Of that I am sure. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/15 "2011-08-11T22:21:58Z")
My father apparently has a thing about finishing what he starts. So after listening to _Atlas Shrugged_ on tape, and declaring it the world’s worst book, he for some reason forced himself to finish all fifty cd’s of it, complaining all the way. So now I’ve heard more than I ever want to know on why Ayn Rand is totally the worst writer ever in the history of the universe. I have to say, just the bits I overheard make me want to find John Galt and slug him in the face. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/16 "2011-08-11T22:28:49Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > **The Catcher in the Rye** This. I found it terribly dull and pointless, despite all the praise. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/17 "2011-08-11T22:37:13Z")
In high school we had to read Hemmingway’s _The Sun Also Rises_. A brief plot summary: And that’s about it. I understand that the same criticism can be applied to pretty much everything Hemmingway has written, but I have no urge to confirm that for myself. ---
**Author:** ![Fionn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fionn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fionn)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/18 "2011-08-11T22:44:09Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > My father apparently has a thing about finishing what he starts. So after listening to _Atlas Shrugged_ on tape, and declaring it the world’s worst book, he for some reason forced himself to finish all fifty cd’s of it, complaining all the way. So now I’ve heard more than I ever want to know on why Ayn Rand is totally the worst writer ever in the history of the universe. I have to say, just the bits I overheard make me want to find John Galt and slug him in the face. Your father deserves some kind of medal for sitting through all of that. At least with the book you can skim the parts that drag. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/19 "2011-08-11T22:45:05Z")
I think some books require you to live out a bit of your own life before you can really appreciate them. I just re-read The Great Gatsby, twenty-odd years after the first time in high school, and it was a totally different experience. > [@](#): > > Gatsby believed in the green light, the orgiastic future that year by year recedes before us. It eluded us then, but that’s no matter- tomorrow we will run faster, stretch out our arms farther…And one fine morning- > > So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past. When you’re in high school, you still naturally believe the sentiment expressed in the first line. And the second line might as well be written in Chinese: you don’t yet have any frame of reference where this sentiment makes any sense at all. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/20 "2011-08-11T22:51:37Z")
> [@maggenpye](#): > > Don’t get me started on _Tess of the D’Urbervilles_, cripes, what an unremitting downer. Add the word “unreadable” before the word “unremitting” and we’re in agreement. Worst “classic” _ever_. And put me down for loathing _Catcher in the Rye_. The prose was serviceable enough, but it’s basically a Judy Blume book (yes, I’m aware which came first) with swearing. A whiney, snivelly loser spends X pages whining and snivelling and not actually _doing_ anything to resolve their problems. By about page 50, I kept thinking that if his parents would ship his ass to a strict military school, he’d be kept busy and wouldn’t be able to obsess on his “problems” (and he had no real problems). And _Moby Dick_, as a novel about whaling and a crazed obsessed captain while being a nifty period piece? Good stuff. _Moby Dick_ as a metaphor for Ahab’s aging and his spear is his penis and Queequeg is his repressed homosexual rape fantasies and the play of the dew on the morning lilly in that one scene was about God’s inhumanity towards us vis-a-vis slavery..ad nauseum? No. It’s the absolute _worst_ book in the world to read for DEEP MEANING (regardless of whether there actually is DEEP MEANING or not). It works well as a novel. Just leave it at that. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379.md?page=2)